Was eyeing a Sabatti SxS, but thought I would ask in case there were other options that I'm not aware of. Where would you look if you wanted a low priced double in 500NE that is reliable?

Thanks

Spending a little more and getting a Merkel, or better yet, a Krieghoff would be preferable to the Sabatti. IMHO.

If you can avoid the muzzle ground regualted Sabatti doubles, you will probably have a serviceable rifle. You will get what you pay for.
Of the Sabatti doubles I have handled, one had the muzzle grinding and the muzzles were out of round in the attempt to regulate it, one (in Zimbabwe) literally fell apart with the ribs and sights coming detached, and the third I was shooting in Alaska on a damp and rainy day and light rust began to show on the action--low cost low carbon steel I was told. The engraving is acid etched and not much hand work but it is a double that will shoot.
You can buy a Baikal for less than $1000 US but you won't get it in .500 ne. The hammer doubles, by Pedersoli I think, can be had in .45-70 and I have known them to be rechambered to .45-120 3 1/4" for a good amount of power.
Cal

PS. Mike's post came in as I was typing mine and his advice is very sound but you will spend 3-5K$ more.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss a Sabatti. They can be a real bargain.

I have two Sabatti Doubles - one in 470NE EJ and one in 500NE. I paid $3400 and $3250 respectively.

It really doesn't matter to me how they were regulated, so long as they shoot. Both of mine function and shoot great. I've fired hundreds of rounds in each with not a single problem.

And, even if I had to have them re-regulated someday, I'd still be happy with them at the prices I paid.

At least five pages....That said, I would not touch a Sabbati OR a Merkel...

I agree with the other folks on this site who state you get what you pay for - very, very true with double rifles. I own Searcy,Verney-Carron, and Krieghoff doubles, and any of these would be better choices than a Sabatti. The used double rifle market is a bit soft right now, so you may be able to buy a used higher quality double for the price of a new Sabatti. Another consideration is safety. My mindset changed a few years back after a few PHs were accidentally shot by clients - this included Leon duPlessis, the partner of my PH Mike Payne. My focus on gun safety, especially considering you are walking behind trackers and a PH for many miles each day has really intensified. It is what prompted me to recently buy a Krieghoff double, which is uncocked until the safety is moved forward - btw, I got this used double at a very good price as well. Short of a Krieghoff type safety, look for a double with intercepting sears, and carry it over your shoulder with a sling.

As others have staterd ... for the most part (but not always) you DO get what you pay for.

But there are bargains out there if you keep looking.

My opinions about Sabattis, are based on (as compared to) the 14 doubles that I own, ranging in price from $2,200 to $35,000. I own doubles by Verney Carron, Westley Richards, Pedersoli, John Dickson, Daniel Fraser, Wm Evans, Kettner, Ad Jansen, Stenda Werke, Lefaucheux, and Larona/Little.

I have as much faith in my Sabattis, as I do in my Verney Carron and the others.

I will sell you a Blaser S2 for $7500 much better rifle than the sabatti. I will even throw in 20 rounds of nosler factory ammo.

I would always rather feel a little pain buying something than a lot of remorse and repeates excuses when using it or rather not using it as it sits left home.

Matthew

I would look around for a used Krieghoff double rifle. If they fit your physique you can depend on that rifle to serve you long term.

Many here think that the Blaser double rifle has the same system but it does not. More about th Blaser system, after the K-gun system is explained.

Once you understand the way Krieghoff double rifles cocking system works you will have the safest double rifle on the market today when carried with the barrels loaded. Safe for the others in your hunting party, but unlike the Blaser system, the K-gun once cocked remains cocked if opened for any reason, and if one or both barrels are fired the K-gun automatically re-cocks the rifle so once reloaded and closed the K-gun is ready to fire the next two rounds.

The above is not true of the Blaser double! If opened for any reason even after cocking the rifle this rifle automatically de-cocks it's self, and must be manually re-cocked before it can be fired. This is not a drew-back when shooting on the firing range, but is not a system one wants in the middle of a fire fight with a cape buffalo or elephant. Just one time you forget to re-cock the Blaser may well cost you a buffalo or elephant being lost, that you must pay for anyway, but more importantly it may cost you or someone else in the party your/their life when you pull the triggers and nothing happens.

Blasers have some good things though, like a built-in facility for mounting a scope, and some of the best accuracy that money can buy, but the DE-COCKER system is "IMO" a dangerous flaw in it's design.

I would not even consider a Sabatti!

..............................................................................

I got one that didn't shoot, 8" wide at 40 yards.

Get what you pay for.

Nitro

I'd wager if a budget conscious person wanted a good double rifle the option of a conversion is a good one. Reliability is reliant on picking a suitable donor gun and of course resale can be difficult. The good though is one can be sure that the rifle WILL regulate with your chosen commercial or personal loads.

A .500ne needs to be on a small 10ga or large 12ga frame.

My gripe with Sabattis is the .500ne, .470ne, and even .450ne models are way too light. In fact all are too light, but you notice it more the bigger they get. Most ive weighed are under 10lbs. I've yet to shoot a harsher recoiling gun. The stock dimensions are incorrect for iron sight use aiding in harsh felt recoil. If one adds weight in the stock to bring it up to a correct weight it is butt heavy. The

Italians stick to brazing ribs on barrels, my cost to regulate Sabattis is vastly higher than other doubles. Sabatti 9.3's I won't even touch! The actions are good, unfortunately they used too small an action for the .470's and .500's. I'd love to get my hands on unbarelled, unengraved, and unstocked sabatti actions!

Dad and I bought 4 Sabatti 500 NE's. 2 SxS and 2 O/U. One SxS shot perfect, without ground muzzles....it is one of those anomalies that regulates, no matter what ammo we shoot in it. Really amazing gun that defies all the "mysteries" of double rifles. The other 3 we sent to Aaron to fine tune. None of the barrels were ground, but the regulation left alot to be desired. We supplied the ammo, and he re-regulated them. Aaron also added weight to bring them up to 11 lbs, upgraded the iron sights, and soldered on a front swivel stud. These 3 now shoot as accurately as the other SxS (very close to barrel spread). I regularly take my O/U out to shoot jackrabbits, in the desert. With a 1.5-5x leupold on it, any jack within 100 yds is in deep trouble, I've even managed to shoot a few running jacks with it. A 570 gr woodleigh throws so much dust and dirt in the air (small atomic clouds), along with the recoil, that you have to walk over to confirm hits. When you hit one, it's pretty humane!!! These guns went from being marginal in the terms of accuracy, to a fun walking "varmint" gun, with much less felt recoil..........with Aaron's help and expertise. I feel these guns are a true bargain, even after paying Aaron's bill, and can't imagine a double shooting any more accurate than these. Seems the best of both worlds....to me. Andy#3

Like others have said, I would avoid Sabatti. Been there and got burned - won't be back. Maybe it won't be a factor, but with Heym introducing the 89B, there may be some downward pressure on the used 88B market. Haven't been looking lately, but the used market was fairly soft not too long agao. I've been very impressed by Heym, and would certainly trust a used Heym - even several years old (of which I have 2) - over any Sabatti. If you're not completely obssessed with a 500 NE, widen the acceptable calibers and it will speed up the search.

In the end if you decide to go the Sabatti route, allow yourself some additional money to spend on several critical upgrades. One, have someone rework the triggers. The triggers that come on the Sabattis are unreasonably heavy and dramatically impact the ability to shoot the rifle accurately. Two, have a real recoil pad installed on the rifle. My suggestion would be one of the red "Silvers" like Decelerator pads installed. Three, have some weight added in the butt-stock, like a mercury recoil reducer. As pointed out by others, the rifles tend to be much too light for caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
I'd wager if a budget conscious person wanted a good double rifle the option of a conversion is a good one. Reliability is reliant on picking a suitable donor gun and of course resale can be difficult. The good though is one can be sure that the rifle WILL regulate with your chosen commercial or personal loads.

A .500ne needs to be on a small 10ga or large 12ga frame.

My gripe with Sabattis is the .500ne, .470ne, and even .450ne models are way too light. In fact all are too light, but you notice it more the bigger they get. Most ive weighed are under 10lbs. I've yet to shoot a harsher recoiling gun. The stock dimensions are incorrect for iron sight use aiding in harsh felt recoil. If one adds weight in the stock to bring it up to a correct weight it is butt heavy. The

Italians stick to brazing ribs on barrels, my cost to regulate Sabattis is vastly higher than other doubles. Sabatti 9.3's I won't even touch! The actions are good, unfortunately they used too small an action for the .470's and .500's. I'd love to get my hands on unbarelled, unengraved, and unstocked sabatti actions!

I'm glad I got to you before you found any of this out! I still need to send my barrels back to you for blueing.

I know where a kreighoff can be had for a good price--around 9k...

Ed

Ed, yes...I've even seen them down in the $8,200 range. Things are S L O W !!!

I have never owned a Merkel but Ive shot a lot of them and everyone was super accurate, and they feel good..I would not hesitate to own one.

I know nada about a Sabatti so won't pass judgement, but they sure are cheap and that worries me..

I really like a Searcy, overall they are the most accurate double rifles every made, and they are a class rifle in fit and finish..I have Owned a number of them in various calibers. Ive shot a hell of a lot of them over the years.

No flies on a good box lock Rhodda, and they are the least expensive British gun.

I don't like the Kriegoff at all, the action is longish, stock is strightish safety is an abortion IMO..just not my idea of a double.

I have very recently had yet another bad incident with a merkel double rifle in camp. This one also shoots both barrels at the same time -- no matter which trigger one pulls first.... NOT a good option for a cheap double in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
I have very recently had yet another bad incident with a merkel double rifle in camp. This one also shoots both barrels at the same time -- no matter which trigger one pulls first.... NOT a good option for a cheap double in my opinion.

#16. Oh wait, I probably logged in as the dude from South Africa...

quote:

Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
I have very recently had yet another bad incident with a merkel double rifle in camp. This one also shoots both barrels at the same time -- no matter which trigger one pulls first.... NOT a good option for a cheap double in my opinion.

I bought a 470 from Cabelas a few years back. I shot it the first time and I thought damn, I wasn't expecting that. I went to shoot the second barrel, noting. It had doubled. I pulled the trigger 4 times, it shot 8. I sent it back.

Been hashed and bashed over at least a dozen times; here is my personal experience. Have owned three big bore Sabattis; two 450s and one 500. One 450 was ground but shout into 2 inches at 50 quite reliably. The second 450 was not ground and shot into 2 inches. My current 500 is not ground and shoots into 2.5 inches all day. A bit light but I put a one pound merc brake in it. True, some are not good, but mine are. They are not the only DRs I have.
For the price they can't be beat at twice the price or more.

My experience with Merkel is that they are built like a tank and generally shoot just about everything well. Mine has never doubled. But it is a simple fix, just send it back to the factory in Alabama and they will fix it. That is what a buddy of mine did and it never doubled again.

To put Merkel and Sabatti in the came category is ridiculous. I own both. Also, my Chapuis' are lot fussier than either the Merkel or the Sabatti.

That 500 NE is a beast to shoot. I have heard horror stories about those who have thought they cut a fat hog buying a Kreighoff at the SCI Banquets....shooting it ONCE, having enough the first time...then trying to sell it!! OUCH on BOTH ends!!
Save your money...don't buy a cheap rifle...you will get burned!!

Cheers,

You could get a Searcy.They fit extremely well as they are made to your measurements.A good fit makes an accurate shot.

Doubling is rare in that most doubling is from those who pull the front trigger first btw..but all doubles have been known to double at times..all guns have failures...Its easy to fix a double that doubles unless its shooter error...I always pull the rear trigger first on a double, and never believe the BS about it was regulated at the factory to shoot with the front pulled first, it may very well have been BUT it makes no difference in the zero or the size of the group..Ive tested this a hundred or so times on different doubles..Its a fable. but the world of doubles is almost a fairy tale of old wives tales..

Muzzle/regulation issues aside the Sabatti is too light in a 500.

Nitro

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:

To put Merkel and Sabatti in the came category is ridiculous.

Absolutely , 100 % correct.

Sabatti is a much better rifle.

LOL, that is funny Jan