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After watching the reload video on Chris's HeymUSA site, the shooter does a respectable job of reloading, gloves or no gloves, belt or no belt. Of course not nearly so fast as BadlandsBud doing his thing with the non-ejector SxS shotgun, who loaded from his belt cartridge holder! I, and I am sure others, would enjoy watching video of all the guys that claim that can reload with blinding speed. Any videos out there?  ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | ||
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I can't reload my doubles very fast. But I can't knit either. For shots #3 and #4, I am definitely better off with a bolt gun. The advantage would lean even more heavily to a bolt gun if I had to recock too. | |||
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I can't even see BLB reaching for the shell between shots. DB Bill aka Bill George | |||
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I can't either. That kid is fast. I couldn't approach that even when I was young much less now! I figure if they don't go down with the first two, I'm screwed, so why worry about it?! ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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That is most likely the case with anyone, if the charge is truly close, because two is all most would get anyway, no matter what rifle they were useing! IMO, where the rapid reload is needed is, to keep the target from getting into the weeds to start with, thereby avoiding haveing to stand a charge at all!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I have seen Bud shoot. He has four rounds in his left hand, between the fingers. Bear in mind, those are 7/8"oz superlites. Rich | |||
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Some time back I posted a "how to" request for reloading a double rifle with rounds 3 & 4, and suggested a video. Some advice, but no takers on the video. I personally would have a hard time holding rounds 3 & 4 in the fingers of my left hand while shooting my 450 x 3 1/4! A wrist band might work however. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Bingo! ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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So, the question is: "Can one shoot 4 rounds with a double as fast as 4 rounds in a bolt"? Having asked this, it seems to me that the recoil of the heavier doubles is significantly greater than the 404 bolt shown in the video. So, does this factor in ie. greater power of the big bore double vs. the greater capacity of the (4 round) bolt action. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Peter,
Not always true. Check out the videos on www.470mbogo.com if you haven't already. Dave does 4 shots in 6.5 seconds with his 470 Mbogo, and I do 3 shots in 4 seconds with mine. All his are center shots on 5 gal pails at 20 yards, and mine are all in a paper plate at the same distance. Both of us are just normal shooters (we didn't practice for those vids.). Anyway, my point is that while we are slower than the guy with the 404 in the Heym video, his rifle recoils about 1/2 as much....you can still be pretty darn fast with a heavy recoiling rifle. And double rifles aren't necessarily more powerful than bolt rifles. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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Canuk I just went thru your link and the recoil,, shooting vids........ My wife actually enjoys the occasional shot with my 458 win.... My experience with the 500 A-Square was simular to yours ,, after a while it gives me a recoil headache......... I thought I was just being a woos.... I will have my next one muzzel broke..... Thank you for posting all that work I very much enjoyed it ,, and found it Extremly informative...... .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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It might be an interesting experiment at the DRSS gathering this January - a side by side shoot off between a bolt and double rifle - 4 shots. ALLEN W. JOHNSON - DRSS Into my heart on air that kills From yon far country blows: What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those? That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain, The happy highways where I went And cannot come again. A. E. Housman | |||
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100% correct! ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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Canuck, I had not seen the video. Thanks very much for the link. That is pretty good shooting! It certainly seems that recoil is a significant factor in the ability to get off aimed shots. How does the 470 Mbogo compare with the 470 NE. It seemed to me that the bolt recoiled more than the double. If so, presumably this is because the double is heavier? Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Nope. The Mbogo is traveling along at approximately 2450-2550 depending who's loading. NE velocity is only 2050-2150 because of DR regulation. That's a huge difference in power. Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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Hi Peter, 475guy is right....the recoil difference has to do with the fact the 470 Mbogo is quite a bit more powerful than a 470 Nitro. Here are some recoil numbers to put things in perspective...numbers assume that none of the rifles have muzzle brakes (our 470 Mbogo's don't): 470 Nitro...assuming double rifle weighs approx 10 lbs, shooting 500gr bullet at 2100fps = 57 ft-lbs of recoil 470 Mbogo...the rifles in the vids both weigh approx 10 lbs (without scopes), and shoot a 500gr bullet at 2500fps = 94 ft-lbs of recoil 404 Jeff....assuming the For comparison, a 300 WM in a 9.5 lb rifle, shooting 180gr bullets at 3000 fps = 27 ft-lbs of recoil. So, in a comparable weight rifle, a 470 Mbogo kicks about 65% harder than a 470 Nitro and 96% harder than a 404 Jeffery. The Nitro kicks about 20% harder than the 404J. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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Now that sounds fun and educational! Make sure it gets on video, eh? If I can ever make an STC shoot, we'll have to do the same! Cheers, Canuck | |||
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Your welcome! Glad you like them. Its Dave's site, I just help him out a bit with video material when I can. The guy in the 500A2 video "rubberneck" is a friend of mine. It does accumulate on you though....I've felt punchy after shooting it a dozen times in the same range session. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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Hi Chris I'm just curious about the 404 Jeffery load mentioned. Isn't the 404 load a 400 grain bullet at 2150 fps. Which means a pretty soft shooter recoil wise. I hope someone gets a double/bolt shoot out on video also. That would be fun as well as interesting. Take good care, Dave | |||
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Hey Dave, The original, turn of the century ballistics were 2125 fps to 2200 fps with a 400gr bullet. Current RWS factory ammo is apparently 2400 fps. I think most guys reload it in the neighborhood of 2400 fps, although we are all familiar with Ray Atkinson's fabled 2600 fps load. I went with 2400 fps above just to split the difference. A 2150 fps load would only generate 46.5 ft-lbs of recoil...about the same as a 375 H&H 300gr load. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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Depending upon the source, the 400 gr. bullet in a 404 Jeffery was going originally at about 2125 fps. If the bullet is zinging along at 2400 fps it is something but it is not a "404 Jeffery." The case is probably big enough to get the 2600 fps that Ray claimed in a 26" barrel. But then when I shoot the 458 WM at 2150 fps, I guess it is not really a 458 WM either. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Those were 400gr Swifts at a chronographed 2220fps. Also, there was no scope on the 404. There will be lots of fun targets set up at the DRSS, I'll bring the video camera. | |||
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Hi Chris (new_guy), Thanks for the clarification on the load and rifle. I have revised my post above accordingly. Any idea how much the rifle weighs? It looks fairly skookum, so I will assume 9.5lbs for the time being. I was also wondering...how does the buff head get released? At first I thought it might be the first shot, but I see in the video of you shooting that it is already moving when you shoot your first shot. (btw, I couldn't see where that bullet hit, but your second shot was right in the x! Nice shooting! )Thanks again for posting the vids, and look forward to any you might have to share after the DRSS shoot in January! Cheers, Chris edited 12/30/06 to hi-lite questions for new_guy. | |||
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btt...in hopes that new_guy will spot my questions and answer them. Cheers, Canuck | |||
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Sorry, Canuck... haven't looked at this post in a while. That 404 weighs right at 10 lbs. The buff is released by a RC car remote and solenoid. | |||
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Thanks new_guy! Canuck | |||
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