The Blaser S2 fits me 99%; theres no problem with regulation; wood is nice; has a SAFE action, carried uncocked a la krieghoff
Is this a good first double for dangerous game? like to hear from the double rifle crowd.

When you open the action and close it again,

you must push the recocking slide again so the

rifle recocks. So, in a situation that requires a

fast reload and firing of shot(s) three (and four

possibly) maybe this little "snippet" of time re-

quired to recock the rifle by sliding that cocking

device could be just enough to make for a bad
result.

quote:

Originally posted by Indlovu:
The Blaser S2 fits me 99%; theres no problem with regulation; wood is nice; has a SAFE action, carried uncocked a la krieghoff
Is this a good first double for dangerous game? like to hear from the double rifle crowd.

Oh God, here we go!

IF you practice with it and become proficient with every intricacy of the rifle and can operate it and reload it and cock it smoothly rapidly and without failure 10 out of ten times.

Then yes YOU can use it for dangerous game.

I am not enamored with the S2 but that shouldn't stop you or anyone else from using it if you'll put in the time and practice necessary to become one with the rifle.

Just like anybody should do with any rifle they are serious about hunting with.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
IF you practice with it and become proficient with every intricacy of the rifle and can operate it and reload it and cock it smoothly rapidly and without failure 10 out of ten times.

Then yes YOU can use it for dangerous game.

I am not enamored with the S2 but that shouldn't stop you or anyone else from using it if you'll put in the time and practice necessary to become one with the rifle.

Just like anybody should do with any rifle they are serious about hunting with.

BINGO!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by Indlovu:
The Blaser S2 fits me 99%; theres no problem with regulation; wood is nice; has a SAFE action, carried uncocked a la krieghoff
Is this a good first double for dangerous game? like to hear from the double rifle crowd.

Oh God, here we go!

Indlovu, the Blaser doesn't work the same as the Krieghoff, though it looks the same on the surface!

The Keieghoff automaticlly re-cocks it's self when the rifle is fired, and broken to re-load the chambers for shots three, and four! SO, there is no danger of frogetting to recock in the middle of a life threatening fight!

The Krieghoff also doesn't have that hood above the chambers,like the Blaser, makeing the chambers more accessable to load, or remove cartridges from the rifle.

The Blaser, is loaded, and before the rifle can be fired it must be cocked by sliding the so-called safety forward! This is not true of the krieghoff. when the rifle is broken to load, and then closed, it is cocked, and to un-cock the rifle it must be made safe by manualy sliding the DE-COCKING lever forward slightly and releasing it to uncock the rifle for loaded carry. If the rifle is fired, and is broken open to re-load one or both barrels, when the rifle is closed it ie ready to fire, because it re-cocks it's self each time it is broken open. The blaser cannot be modified to work the same way! IMO, the Krieghoff is a far better unit than the Blaser! There is an old saying that makes sense when discussing double rifles, especially, and any other rifle, really, that is to be used for the taking of dangerous game, and that is: "KISS" (Keep it sinple, stupid)!

If however the blaser floats your boat, then set sail! It is just that the rifle is not for me, personally, and that has no effect on your choice, since it will not cost me a dime, and will not get a horn in "MY" butt!

Not for me on a bet! Looked at it once decided this old man should stay English.

Indlovu:

I think that you will find that most of the traditional double rifle guys here don't care for the S2. I think they are a great and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one for a second. Thay have the strongest action of any double rifle on the market today and all the reports I have heard is that they are very accurate.

Mac is right. You do have to re-cock them every time you break the rifle open but like anything else, practice makes perfect. As long as you are throughly familiar with your rifle you should be fine but that is true of every rifle used to hunt dangerous game.

There is a BEAUTIFUL Blaser S2 Super Luxus in .500/.416 for sale at Cabela's gun library. I have looked at it a hundred times. It's out of my price range but you can bet, if I had an extra $14,000 laying around, it would be in my gun safe. By the way, on the same site, they have a standard grade S2 in .500/.416 as well.

I say, if you like, go for it!

Dave

Thanks all!
The point about the rifle not recocking after breaking it open is an important one, particularly for people accustomed to double rifles. I am more accustomed to shotguns, where you have to release the automatic safety to fire. So this may not be a big problem for ME, especially with a lot of practice.
I think the overhang does make reloading a trifle slower, though. And i dont really care for the very high rib. But regulation wont be a problem.
I might give it a whirl.

quote:

Originally posted by Indlovu:
Thanks all!
The point about the rifle not recocking after breaking it open is an important one, particularly for people accustomed to double rifles. I am more accustomed to shotguns, where you have to release the automatic safety to fire. So this may not be a big problem for ME, especially with a lot of practice.
I think the overhang does make reloading a trifle slower, though. And i dont really care for the very high rib. But regulation wont be a problem.
I might give it a whirl.

Enjoy your rifle what ever you buy! That being said, you will find that the re-cocking button is not like a safety on a shotgun, and takes considerably more effort to use.

Here let me say, a properly set up double rifle, that is to be used for dangerous game hunting, will NEVER have an auto safety, adjustable regulation, a single trigger, or chambered for a rimless, or belted rimless cartridge, or an action that must be re-cocked between loadings!

One or two of those things can be lived with, but when the rifle has them all.........

The Krieghoff is a far better designed rifle than the Blaser in every respect,IMO, and is a far better choice for dangerous game use, if you must have the de-cocking system!

quote:

by Dave Bush

There is a BEAUTIFUL Blaser S2 Super Luxus in .500/.416 for sale at Cabela's gun library. I have looked at it a hundred times. It's out of my price range but you can bet, if I had an extra $14,000 laying around, it would be in my gun safe. By the way, on the same site, they have a standard grade S2 in .500/.416 as well.

Dave with $14K you can buy a REAL double rifle, and a better one than the Blaser for considerably less than $14K!

Still the Blaser is available for those who can live with it's draw-backs, but I'm not one of those people! The Krieghoff is as close to a blaser as I will ever get! Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle!

Indlovu
Buy a Heym and you have a REAL Double rifle not like Blaser or Krieghoff.

Seloushunter

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
IF you practice with it and become proficient with every intricacy of the rifle and can operate it and reload it and cock it smoothly rapidly and without failure 10 out of ten times.

Then yes YOU can use it for dangerous game.

I am not enamored with the S2 but that shouldn't stop you or anyone else from using it if you'll put in the time and practice necessary to become one with the rifle.

Just like anybody should do with any rifle they are serious about hunting with.

Surestrike, every once in a while you say something that really makes sense. This is good advise.

I personally do not like the Blaser or the Krieghoff systems. I think that there are plenty of superior rifles on the market. But if you are really set on the Blaser then go ahead. BUT PRACTICE WITH IT RELIGIOUSLY!!

Indlovu:

You might check the Guns America site. I see that Alex Roy is selling brand new Luxus grade S2's in .375, .500/.416, .470, and .500 NE for $8,000. The .375 and .500/.416 are built on the smaller frame. I am putting together something else right now but I am going to give the .500/.416 a really hard look as my next project. I don't see the hood over the action or the recocking as a drawback. They are just differences that you have to practice. IMHO, there is only one real drawback to buying an S2. They represent a new and different way of looking at a double rifle and for the double rifle guys, new and different, even though it might be better, is not a good thing. As a consequence, it affects the resale value of your gun. If you can live with that, rock on!

Dave

So ya want the "Rattler". Heym if you want ejectors and krieg if you want simplicty. IMHO after 500 shots breaking at ports arms the shells fall right out on a 500 every time.Blazer R93 double Bolt Rifle is the way to gor for the techie.LOL

Yes! The R93 DUO is the ultimate double rifle if you have the brainpower to operate it at full clip!! L-R L-R L-R L-R, Drop Left Drop Right, Reload Left Reload Right, Repeat - result!?! MANY dead beasties!

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Indlovu:

You might check the Guns America site. I see that Alex Roy is selling brand new Luxus grade S2's in .375, .500/.416, .470, and .500 NE for $8,000. The .375 and .500/.416 are built on the smaller frame. I am putting together something else right now but I am going to give the .500/.416 a really hard look as my next project. I don't see the hood over the action or the recocking as a drawback. They are just differences that you have to practice. IMHO, there is only one real drawback to buying an S2. They represent a new and different way of looking at a double rifle and for the double rifle guys, new and different, even though it might be better, is not a good thing. As a consequence, it affects the resale value of your gun. If you can live with that, rock on!

Dave

In the case of the S2 new is not better, like many of the things that are advertised as "NEW, AND IMPROVED", which only means they are cheaper, and require less skill to make!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Indlovu:

You might check the Guns America site. I see that Alex Roy is selling brand new Luxus grade S2's in .375, .500/.416, .470, and .500 NE for $8,000. The .375 and .500/.416 are built on the smaller frame. I am putting together something else right now but I am going to give the .500/.416 a really hard look as my next project. I don't see the hood over the action or the recocking as a drawback. They are just differences that you have to practice. IMHO, there is only one real drawback to buying an S2. They represent a new and different way of looking at a double rifle and for the double rifle guys, new and different, even though it might be better, is not a good thing. As a consequence, it affects the resale value of your gun. If you can live with that, rock on!

Dave

In the case of the S2 new is not better, like many of the things that are advertised as "NEW, AND IMPROVED", which only means they are cheaper, and require less skill to make!

Mac:

I don't understand your reasoning here. If Blaser can make a strong, accurate double that goes bang every time and do it for less money then Merkel, Kreighoff, or Heym, why isn't that a good thing? I have never heard of one of an an S2 failing.

Dave

The S2 is not cheaper to build than the "Others" and it sells for the same price apples to apples.

The only reason that the "Others" sell for $8000 plus, instead of $2000, is that they have a bazillion hours in blacksmith time in them. (And about $1000 of materials)

Yep! I want to own something that requires a hammer and fire to regulate!! Can't shoot modern bullets or high pressure loads in the "Others" either.

As far as new goes I think a quick check will indicate that the action design used in the S2 and many other Modern German rifles was patented in 1904 in Suhl. It's really a common sense design.

MacD just loves to pick on the S2 cause he can't figure out how it works or his right thumb is too short! (and it wasn't made by Clive in Upperbogmoorfordshire on the Thames)

Of course, I wouldn't balk at using a New Royal Double in 700 like MacD if they gave me one!!

I have kicked the S2 to death. There are a few things that could improve the rifle.

1. Make the rifle stay cocked. Every time it is broken then you have to push the Damn comb-e-cocker

2.Shorten the barrels, they could use the rib on the smaller calibers, make them 22.5 inches insead of 25 inches in the nitro calibers.(the guns are barrel heavy)

3. Do a traditional version by using the mono-block , and soldered barrels.

4. Do a larger frame for 577 under 15K.

5. Clean up the lines a bit, more english, hey fish and chips sells!

6. Keep the price from 9K-15K for the luxus.

I love the tilt block action, and some of the other features, but it will not be perfect untill they work on the balance and the look.

505ED

quote:

3. Do a traditional version by using the mono-block , and soldered barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
MacD just loves to pick on the S2 cause he can't figure out how it works or his right thumb is too short! (and it wasn't made by Clive in Upperbogmoorfordshire on the Thames)

Of course, I wouldn't balk at using a New Royal Double in 700 like MacD if they gave me one!!

I don't like to pick on the S2, but it deserves it, IMO!

I truly wish it had been a well thought out design! It was designed by a committee, with one end not speaking to the other! IMO, that rifle is dangerous, not from injury from the rifle it's self, but from having too many things that can get the shooter into some real life trouble!

The UGLY, and poor balance I can live with, but having to deal with an auto-safety, that can't be modified, because it is what cocks the rifle each time the rifle is broken to re-load, is not my idea of a "SAFETY, but is a HAZARD!" The Krieghoff works properly, and cocks it's self when it is broken to re-load to finish a close quarters fight!

As far as the standing high pressure, what use is that? The only cartridges that are suitable for double rifles are flanged, low-pressure cartridges, and the high-pressure rounds are all rimless, or belted rimless, and are dangerous as well,in a break-top rifle, along with the auto-so-called safety.

In regard to your indictment, that the only thing I like has to be made in Upperbogmoorfordshire, And your insenuation that I would use a 700ne double rifle, made by anyone, is completely wrong! a 700NE double rifle is as useless as the tits on a boar hog, and is inferior to even the Blaser, in any chambering, no matter who made it, because of the useless cartridge!
Though I do own some of the Britt doubles, I find them to be no better than most of the better German, or Austrian, and Belgian double rifles, they just look different. The Blaser, however, is not only ugly, but filled with un-needed features that are not only unnecessary, but are dangerous IMO.

I'm thinking, Of course, my opinion must be wrong, simply because you disagree with it! You are no doubt right, however, because I only have 51 yrs experience with double rifles, since I bought my first one in 1957 at the age of 21 yrs.

......Indlovu, if you want the Blaser S2, and it floats your canoe, then buy it, but you did ask, and I gave you my honest take on the rifle, but it is worth only what you paid for it! Enjoy!

No intent to antagonize a blacksmith but everytime I see someone ask a legitimate question about the S2, you show up with your usually comedic and hostile "opinion".



MacD! I MUST defer to your expertise on doubles since you've been shooting them longer than I've been alive!! Sorry about the lack of dexterity in your short thumb.

This thread makes me want to go out and buy and S2!!

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
No intent to antagonize a blacksmith but everytime I see someone ask a legitimate question about the S2, you show up with your usually comedic and hostile "opinion".

HOSTILE? My opinions HOSTLE? Have you read any of your own lately? I don't know anyone on this web-site that is more contrary about everything than our resident engineer!

quote:

This thread makes me want to go out and buy and S2!!

I really wish you would go out and buy one! The buffalo are waiting for you to get there! They love engineers! Don't forget your blueprints to dirrect the buffalo, on how they are supposed to act, while you fumble with that contraption!

Engineer, Swahili for the lions snack...

Sorry MacD! I'll try to be more agreeable from now on! You know I hate controversy!!

I'd probably take the S2 apart and make a bunch of new "improved" parts before taking it into the field!! I'd turn the long thumb lever into a light switch or something so I could see them African Beasties at night!!

Whud-a-ya mean them Buffalo don't respond to cattle calls??

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

I'm thinking, Of course, my opinion must be wrong, simply because you disagree with it! You are no doubt right, however, because I only have 51 yrs experience with double rifles, since I bought my first one in 1957 at the age of 21 yrs.

Guys, throw all your S2's in the trash. Mac has spoken. It probably would be suicide to hunt with one.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

I'm thinking, Of course, my opinion must be wrong, simply because you disagree with it! You are no doubt right, however, because I only have 51 yrs experience with double rifles, since I bought my first one in 1957 at the age of 21 yrs.

Guys, throw all your S2's in the trash. Mac has spoken. It probably would be suicide to hunt with one.

Dave

.............GOOD ONE!

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Sorry MacD! I'll try to be more agreeable from now on! You know I hate controversy!!

................

..............................

My two cents on the suject. I handled an S2 in 470 NE at Cabela's a couple of years ago. Other than the aesthetics, one act convinced me I would never own one in a large DG caliber. I focussed on a spot on the wall, then brought the rifle to my shoulder quickly while "cocking" it. The pressue needed to cock it was great enough that it caused the rifle to torque in my hand and, before the buttstock was close to my shoulder . . click! I hae never had anything close to this happen with my Heym or any other rifle with a normal safety. I'm sure that with lots of practice and familiarity and if this was my only rifle, I might regain confidence, but probably not. No way in a DG rifle. Small caliber, sure.

quote:

As far as new goes I think a quick check will indicate that the action design used in the S2 and many other Modern German rifles was patented in 1904 in Suhl. It's really a common sense design.

Just because the design was a proven hit in the cuckoo clock market does not make it appropriate for dangerous game. And that damn little bird popping out on the hour would tend to alert the game in the vicinity.

Also, there is something very emasculating and confidence-eroding in something that has a "de-cocker". Ouch.

quote:

Originally posted by heym470ne:
My two cents on the suject. I handled an S2 in 470 NE at Cabela's a couple of years ago. Other than the aesthetics, one act convinced me I would never own one in a large DG caliber. I focussed on a spot on the wall, then brought the rifle to my shoulder quickly while "cocking" it. The pressue needed to cock it was great enough that it caused the rifle to torque in my hand and, before the buttstock was close to my shoulder . . click! I hae never had anything close to this happen with my Heym or any other rifle with a normal safety. I'm sure that with lots of practice and familiarity and if this was my only rifle, I might regain confidence, but probably not. No way in a DG rifle. Small caliber, sure.

Okay, I just couldn't resist this.

I PERSONALLY KNOW A GUY who was in Africa not long ago with his brand new Heym .500 Nitro that he has saved for years to buy for the trip to shoot a cape buffalo. He worked up his loads, got it shooting great but it broke a firing pin in Africa. It was a good thing he had brought a bolt along with him or he would have been hunting with a single shot. Between a Heym and a Blaser s2, I'll take the Blaser any day. The S2 is half the money and twice the gun.

Dave

Broken firing pin? Out in the Bush? Dangerous animals all around? Hmmmmm......sounds like he should've built a hot fire, pulled an old nail from his hut & made a new pin! I bet a Cuckoo Clock wouldn't have broken!

Guess the S2 (cuckoo clock) does not have firing pins. The function of primer striking is obviously done by those tiny birds pecking at the primers. I suppose some guys like little peckers, but I'll stick with firing pins....

Everyone has an opinion. At the Dallas Safari show I had a customer ask me about Blaser S2. I asked him to take any or all of the doubles I had on the rack, break them open and then snap them shut. He did this with a Heym and a Chapuis. Then he went to look at Blaser. When he came back he told me "that Blaser really vibrates in your hands when you close it." I told him yes, it feels and vibrates just like that cheap double barrel 12 gauge I have in the closet at home. I do not think this is a good thing to feel. The Heym, Chapuis and Krieghoff close with a "thud!" and you do not feel that vibration in your hands and wrists. I cannot imagine what it would be like if you had to fire a Blaser S2.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles Prince:
Everyone has an opinion. At the Dallas Safari show I had a customer ask me about Blaser S2. I asked him to take any or all of the doubles I had on the rack, break them open and then snap them shut. He did this with a Heym and a Chapuis. Then he went to look at Blaser. When he came back he told me "that Blaser really vibrates in your hands when you close it." I told him yes, it feels and vibrates just like that cheap double barrel 12 gauge I have in the closet at home. I do not think this is a good thing to feel. The Heym, Chapuis and Krieghoff close with a "thud!" and you do not feel that vibration in your hands and wrists. I cannot imagine what it would be like if you had to fire a Blaser S2.

Charles:

I doubt they even work. The whole gun would probably just explode in your hands. If someone wants to sell an S2 in .500/.416 for a song, pm me. I wouldn't want anyone to be injured.

Dave

The "Rattler" is a quality built weapon no slamin

DAVE A Heym with a broken Firing Pin??

If it was a story told from a shooter after all that prep could it of been an empty chamber.

This does happen because I am the living testament and yes when it goes click and then you reload but are quizzical when there is no rounds in the chambers you go ahead and load and then the buff is in the grass and the PH looks and says what the #%^&% and your father in heaven says Humility and you break the gun and says broken firing pins and then camp talk is about bad makers and not about my bonehead for not checking and having a novices in camp that unload the guns because of the kids.

FWIW I guess I can use AR as my confessional for story that cost me alot of dough and pride that I now find hilarious!!! Thanks for the Learn of the Day

.500Pro:

No, I am certain it was a broken firing pin. The gun in question had to be sent back to Heym for repair upon return to the USA.

These are all good guns and these things happen but I think the S2 is a good gun too and I have never heard of anyone having a problem with one. I don't care for the schnabel forend but the recocking thing and the hood don't bother me in the slightest. $15,000 for a Heym or $8,000 for and S2...I know which one I'd pick.

Dave

If Heym needs some unbreakable firing pins, I can make them in a few days! Send a sample Mr. Heym.