I am getting ready for my big game hunt next year,I would like to ask the following question to the forum members,at what range do you practice shooting at with your 470 ? what is the max range you would practice at & what is max acceptable range for a 470 ?
I am shooting a Heym 470 safari,has anybody tried adding a recoil reducer to the stock? did it have any negative effect on the gun's balance & feel.

Bal

I would shoot the gun off hand at 25, a bunch at 50, and 75 and some at 100.

Practice getting off two shots, and then reloading.

Also sometimes shoot one, reload one.

I would also shoot kneeling and off of sticks at 50 100 150 and even at 200.

As above plus try the odd shot at 150 yards "in case" you need to ass end a
fleeing buffalo.

Unless absolutely necessary, I wouldn't try a shot past 175 - 200 yards
and even then, only on already hit animals.

FWIW I agree with both posts above.

However, I think it does depend on what you are intending to hunt. Buffalo may require more practice shots at 50 yds. Elephant may be more appropriate to practice at 25 yds.

Another thought is that developing confidence and an intuition for distance should be one of the goals of the practice.

When practicing with my 470 I set two 50 gal barrels with targets pasted all over them out in a valley in the woods. Then I approached from various distances and angles and shot at the targets on the barrels.

Each weekend I rolled the barrels to a different spot. Sometimes I shot from 60 or 70 yds. and sometimes from 10 yds. Sometimes off hand and sometimes leaning an elbow against a tree.

I can't say it made my shooting good - but I think it was better than it would have been if I had shot at paper at a consistent distance each shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Palmer:
I think it does depend on what you are intending to hunt.

I agree. If elephant are on the agenda, practicing at distances of more than 25 yards is likely to do your confidence more harm than good. Buffalo I would practice at 50 yards.

It would be real interesting to take a group of ten double rifle shooters, myself included, with open sights and let them open up off hand at 100 yards for four shots each. I am going to take the under for half of the forty shots being on the paper.

I have been practicing mostly at 25 yards and some at 50, all offhand. I feel very comfortable hunting elephant and buffalo practicing at those distances. Hopefully my elephant will be less than 12 yards and the buffalo at 25 yards effectively cutting the distance I practiced in half. That being said I do some shooting at 100 (on sticks) to see where the rifle shoots "way out" there.

Mike,

I agree with your statement, I want the under also. A while back there was an interesting topic in the big bore section that a group felt 2 to 3" groups should be shot offhand at 100 yards with a big bore. That would be tough.

Hell, open sights at 100 yards the bead of the front sight will damn near, if not completely, cover the target. Then add in the wobbling back and forth, etc., 2 or 3" open sights at 100 yards seems a little optimistic.

Some of the best practice you can do is to shoot at lifesize animal targets.

Deer targets are the easiest to get in the States.

If you are hunting IVORY you might want to be able to take a shot at an elephant at a distance.

Likewise I think you will be lucky to get a shot at a buff much less than 50 yards.

As to elephants I have shot 4 at six yards or less, so a little point blank shooting is a good idea too.

Last year I practiced using the "Perfect Shot" buffalo targets. They definitely helped my shooting and learning where the vitals are located. I had to force myself to shoot low enough for a good top of heart shot.

Hunting tuskless, 12 to 15 yards I hope is realistic. The buf will be tough to get within 25 yards but I am doing a cow hunt so we may be able to get close enough. (no pack and dip, no freight, no taxidermy just hunting)

If you go to an appliance store you can get refrigerator boxes and draw a crude buff outline and try shoot from different distances. Shoot at the side for normal shots and at the end of the box for a fleeing wounded animal. The most important thing is to never shoot from the bench. Lean against a tree, kneel, sit, use sticks,lay on a ridge, and shoot free hand.

Elephant are different for brain shots but, good Lord, buffalo are just like deer or anything else. Just wait for a broadside shot. Half way up, just behind the front leg. Dead buff.

Bill, unless you show your PH that you are a REAL good shot with that open-sighted double, he's not going to let you shoot past 75-100 yards. That being said, I have taken 2 buff with doubles, one with a 470 that started at 40 and ended at about 15 yards. The other about 50 yards.
IF you keep 4 shots in an 8" pie plate at 100 yards...consistently....you're good to go up to 100. But remember...that's at the range. PG to 100 would be fine...I'd never try a buff at 100 unless it was a follow-up...but that's me.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Hell, open sights at 100 yards the bead of the front sight will damn near, if not completely, cover the target. Then add in the wobbling back and forth, etc., 2 or 3" open sights at 100 yards seems a little optimistic.

Suggest you go and practice then. Your description is what it is like at the start
but with practice it becomes easier and you get better - or should.

Not sure how you shoot but most of my hunting is of hand with a scope or a double
- and then add sometimes "on the run" as well.

If you get out and practice at 25, then 50, then 75 yards, you'll soon find hitting the target
at 100 yards isn't that difficult.

Bal:

Listen to Tony here. Shoot as much as you can at various ranges. It really does help. Hope you're doing well pard.

For game shooting to 100 yards and somewhat beyond, the distinction between the double rifle and the bolt is zero. The difference is between express sights and scopes ONLY and, at such ranges, the difference is not great, given proper express sights.

We all have to deal with this:

quote:

Then add in the wobbling back and forth, etc.

...but it's true with scopes just as it is with express sights. Scopes just magnify it. The problem is that the on board radar fire control system isn't fully integrated. The trick is to get the sear to slip when the sights (or scope, no difference) wobble across the firing solution.

That said, if this is true:

quote:

Hell, open sights at 100 yards the bead of the front sight will damn near, if not completely, cover the target.

...then sure, you have a serious problem. I know large beads are fashionable on large bore doubles, but for shooting at paper beyond 50 yards, they're an exercise in Hail Marys and, in my experience, are worthless for game. Any coarse sighting system is an impediment to accurate shooting beyond close range. You can't hit what you can't see.

The last animal I shot with a double rifle was a pig, maybe 130 lbs, taken after first light, but well before full light, at 120 yards. It was an easy shot, and a bang/flop, using an .060" bead. I've never had any problem picking it up quickly in close range shooting, and it's small enough to permit good precision out past 100 yards.

I've never seen the need to limit the range of a perfectly good rifle by saddling it with oversize sights.
-----------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I have a mercury tube in my Heym 470. It is a little butt heavy however when I close my eyes and shoulder the weapon and then open my eyes, the sights are in alignment. I take this fittiment as important as balance. It might also depend on your build; either slight or muscular as to how the balance may effect you (we all know it is better to have a fine balanced weapon).
As to the range you want to shoot. I think it is all said above. If you can hit a paper pie plate consistantly at specific range off sticks or leaning against a tree, that is probably "your" personal range.
I love my double, but all my life I have used scoped bolts so I feel far more comfortable with them. I would limit my range with my 470 to a max of 75 yards with "my" current ability.
I have a mod 70; 416 Rem I would not think 2 seconds about popping a Buff @ 200 yards if a PH would allow me.
Practice; practice

Thanks Gents,
as always this is the best place to pick up knowledge,
Now it's practice,practice & practice !!

quote:

I am shooting a Heym 470 safari,has anybody tried adding a recoil reducer to the stock? did it have any negative effect on the gun's balance & feel.

Forgot about that part. I would never do so. I've never shot a double rifle with a recoil reducer added that didn't absolutely kill it, unless it was a club to begin with. Far better to do it right. Put a Kick-eez on it, get some more cast bent into it, and reshape the comb. Stock fit and design make a big difference.
---------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Thanks,I'll try that.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Suggest you go and practice then.

Thanks for the advice, that had never occured to me. I guess I will start practicing this weekend . . . at 25 yards.

Maybe at the shoot in October we can run a live test. We can get 10 double rifle shooters, walk over to the 100 yard range, let each take four rounds and an 8" paper plate and blast away off hand. I will still take the under for more than 50% of the shots being on the plate. Mark, Tony, others, let's run the test and see what happens. That will be far more entertaining that busting water jugs at 25 yards with squib loads.

quote:

Thanks for the advice, that had never occured to me. I guess I will start practicing this weekend . . . at 25 yards.

touchy, touchy

It is interesting to me that it appears taken for granted that shooting an animal is equivilent to shooting flat footed on level ground at a range.
Seldom does hunting terrain parallel that on a groomed range. It is uneven, on a slope or cluttered with rocks, ruts or other obsticals.
Typically there is an anxiety level to address as well as the likely hood the hunter may be winded from a brisk stalk.
All the sudden your 100 yard confidence becomes a 50 yard or less possibility.
I have experienced this first hand archery hunting years ago when I could nail an elk sized target effortlessly at 60 yards. But after running up some hills and trying to shoot in an ackward position on a steep hill. My "real" range was closer to 30 yards.
You need to prepare for the worst situation and be realistic.
Practice in real situations. Run up a few hills, grab your rifle and see how well you can shoot. Then run some hills and shoot sideways off a uneven slope. What about the breeze or wind gusting and that makes shooting off hand even a larger challenge
You cannot still not figure in the excitement, heartbeat and anxiety that may come into play when you are about to shoot. Knats and flys buzzing around your head, Mamba slithering up your pant leg.

Practice; but develop a routine that places you in a real hunting environment. You may want to figure the temperature into the equation.
It would be nice if all our quarry stood still broad side while we shot them off a steady rest.
The gun may not be the determining factor in this equation.
More than likely it will be the elements and situation you find yourself.

quote:

Mark, Tony, others, let's run the test and see what happens. That will be far more entertaining that busting water jugs at 25 yards with squib loads.

Make it happen Mike! The results will be very interesting!

Me, touchy? I am just trying to counteract the fact that you're going soft on us, "good morning", good grief.

We need to sign you up for the 100 yard, double rifle, express sights, offhand pie plate shoot off . . . but you might throw off the average (not sure in what direction though).

quote:

Originally posted by Mississippian:

quote:

Mark, Tony, others, let's run the test and see what happens. That will be far more entertaining that busting water jugs at 25 yards with squib loads.

Make it happen Mike! The results will be very interesting!

My guess is that finding volunteers would not be easy . . .

quote:

My guess is that finding volunteers would not be easy . . .

No doubt! I would have to burn alot more powder before I would volunteer to embarrass myself!

It would be MUCH better to do your practice, and have the test shoot, on lifesize real looking animal targets.

Here is why, when shooting at a target, like a paper plate, shooters tend to try too hard and yank the shot, as it is hard to hold on such a small target at that distance.

However many shooters can shoot a group the SIZE of a paper plate when aiming at an animal target.

Deer targets are the easiest to get.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
We need to sign you up for the 100 yard, double rifle, express sights, offhand pie plate shoot off . . . but you might throw off the average (not sure in what direction though).

You're getting mean in your old age.

I agree that shooting life sized targets is a easier task than shooting round dots. The dot are good for sighting in but that is about it.
The life sized target are fun.
Been practicing with them for the past month; drew an elk tag in 16D; the Gila in New Mexico. Leaving in two weeks.
Hopefully in 2011 I will be leaving for Africa this time of the year with a double.

EZ

Osama bin Bal...

One thing to help is to cut down on the Indian food and start eating Pakistani food. Works every time!

The most important thing about hunting shots at game is...

A Man has got to know HIS limitations.

I try very hard, and in the last many years have been pretty successful in not taking a shot I cannot make.

If I am just too wobbly I do not shoot.

If I am dialed in I shoot.

For instance on my first Safari, I was shooting great.

We saw an impala at a distance, I had my scoped 9,3x74R Chapuis double.
I went kneeling and as i was bearing down, the PH says "Thats pretty far EH..."

The shot felt good I fired, one dead impala.

A day or so later, we walked up on an impala fairly close 90 to 100 yards, I started to shoot, but did not, the impala walked into the bush.

The PH asked "Why did not you shoot?" As compared to some other shots I had been making it looked to be easy...

I replied, "I was not steady enough".

The key is, know when you can make the shot, and if you cannot, do not shoot.

Only by a lot of practice, will you know your ability, and your limits.

Do not let "others" induce you to shoot when you know you should not.

I will also say, the best practice you can get with your big bore DG rifle, Double or otherwise, is to do a bunch of pig hunts, and kill a buch of pigs.

You can hunt them year round. Most places there is no bag limit.

And they are GREAT to eat.

Mark,
just took the rifle in today to get a new pad put on it,

Tony,
you are absolutely right,never take a shot if it does'nt feel right,& I will be shooting at some life size deer targets,at @100 yrds,

Paul,
listen you little fu...r,no more free brekkie for you next 3.a.m in the morning ha ha !!!