Did anyone here get to hold that Westley Richards at Dallas or Reno in 450#2 with ejectors it was absolutgely gorgeous and truly fit me perfectly... But the pricetag.

Mike

A few more details, please! That's just mean to leave that as a tease. Who's selling it and for how much? Type of action, age, etc..

Mike

I saw a Westley Richards 450 NE at the Budda Tx Cabelas booth, was that the one?

What case is the 450 # 2 made on and how does it compare to the 450 NE?


Shawn

quote:

What case is the 450 # 2 made on and how does it compare to the 450 NE?

.450 3.25" NE: 70 grains Cordite/480 grain bullet = 2,150 fps in 28" barrels for 17 tons/3,050 BAR/44,236 PSI

.450 No. 2 NE: 80 grains Cordite/480 grain bullet = 2,175 fps in 28" barrels for 13 tons/2,800 BAR/40,610 PSI

The 3 1/2" case .450 No. 2 isn't based on any other case, nor is any other caliber made from it. That's why it's expensive.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Sorry guys on my post... The rifle was at the Westley Richards booth in DSC and I also assume it made it to Reno since I did not buy it...
Had beautiful wood and I will see if I can get a few pics of it from the Westley Richads rep...

price tag...70 K

450#2 brass is $105 for 20 casings $125 box 5 shots Kynoch
They are damn impressive to look at, will post some photos of them in an hour or 2..

Mike

Here is a photo of a 450 #2 and friends:

600 N.E., 12ga. 3in., 450#2N.E., 458 Lott, 450#2N.E., 300win mag., 30/06, 577N.E., 500 Jeffery foreground 4 bore solid, and 600N.E. solid



Mike

What is the parent case to the 450#2 ?

I didn't read 450 nitro express reply! Sorry about that!

Wasn't there a 475#2 also, and how does it compare to the 450#2 ?

Yes there is the 475#2 is the samecasing open up to 475.

450#2 is 4.30 inches long loaded

475#2 is 4.330 inches long loaded

Mike

quote:

Wasn't there a 475#2 also, and how does it compare to the 450#2 ?

For any practical purpose, the .475 No. 2 case is also unique.

As originally drawn, the .475 No. 2 was based on the .450 No. 2 case necked up to take a .483" bullet. Eley quickly discarded that design and necked up NA&A's .500/.450 3.5" BPE case instead, itself extremely uncommon today, and gave it a thicker rim. The .475 No. 2 is a larger diameter case than the .450 No. 2.

There are two versions of the .475 No. 2 - Eley's proprietary version used a 480 grain .483" bullet over 85 grains Cordite, and Jeffery's proprietary version used a 500 grain .489" bullet over 85 grains Cordite, although Jeffery pushed the 80 Cordite "Tropical" loading.

The walking "encyclopedia of Nitro express cartridges" thank you Mark...

Mike

Thanks for the info Mark! That has been eating on me since I saw Mike ammo in Dallas, those things are HUGE!!

I guess I bought me a 450/400 today from Chopperguy! I am excited!

Shawn, congrats on your new double and after you fire the first two shots you will know why the guys rave about them...
You liked my panatella's...

Mike

Mike:

You're welcome. Yeah, the .450 No. 2 has a max base diameter of .565" and the .475 No. 2 has a max base diameter of .580". Most assume they're the same case, but the .475 is slightly larger.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400,
You are amazing!!! A few years ago, I purchased a set of dies and 60 rounds of 450#2 brass. The seller told me that 8-10 of them were formed from 475#2, and headstamped so. I have always been under the impression that the only difference was the neck diameter. Will these not function in the 450#2? What are the correct rim thicknesses for both? I will measure mine to see what they show...seems like they are Bertram and Bell, but I can't remember what is what?
The more I read your posts, the more humbled I become...You must sweat DR knowledge, when it's hot out.
Thanks, ND

I reload for my friend David's Jeffery 475#2 Jeffery. What an elephant killing machine! He has taken 3-4 with the rifle. Here is a picture of the rifle and cartridge. The picture doesn't do the rifle justice. It is the most pristine working double rifle I have ever seen! It weighs 11 Lbs. and has recoil, that even for me, is manageable!

You'll find a lot of the info on the old Nitro cartridges on Kynoch's web site.

quote:

Originally posted by Nitrodave:
A few years ago, I purchased a set of dies and 60 rounds of 450#2 brass. The seller told me that 8-10 of them were formed from 475#2, and headstamped so. I have always been under the impression that the only difference was the neck diameter. Will these not function in the 450#2?

Dave:

I dunno, but it's hard to imagine how they could. Perhaps it's possible to form them in small base diameter dies in a hydraulic press? Max base diameter (diameter of case just in front of the rim) for the .450 No. 2 is .565". Max base diameter of the .475 No. 2 is .580". Keep in mind that this dimension is max cartridge. Typical base diameter of factory ammo would run slightly under, say, .560" to .565" max for the .450, and, say, .575" to .580" max for the .475. A typical difference of 15 thou is a lot. I'd be interested to know what your cartridges headstamped .475 No. 2 actually measure.

quote:

What are the correct rim thicknesses for both?

Max rim thickness for both cartridges is .080".

Many thanks for the kind words.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

And once again, Mark is correct!!! I could see the difference as soon as I pulled them out of the boxes. I had 3 different brands of 450#2, so I picked a Bell. The 475#2 is Bell as well.

Case = base dia / rim dia / rim thickness
450#2 = .565 / .645 / .077

475#2 = .5765 / .670 WOW! / .077

It appears that he must have neck sized the 475#2's down and called them the same, because all necks are .452 on the 475#2 cases and the 450#2's are .456
Looks like I have 2 cases left that couldn't possibly work...I must have only received 4 of the 475#2 to start with, because I have given a couple to friends that were impressed, and didn't want to give up the correct headstamp...lucky!

It's a B#t&h, to get a chart to look right when this forum condences everything after you post!

quote:

475#2 = .5765 / .670 WOW! / .077

Dave:

How would you like to be trying to cram one of those in a .450 No. 2 with something large bearing down on you?

Interesting you should bring this up. Just had a guy come by the booth at SCI that had the same issue with FACTORY .450 No. 2 ammunition. He said several rounds out of the batch wouldn't chamber. These were headstamped ".450 No. 2", but measurement showed they were .475 No. 2 brass - loaded with 480 grain .458" bullets. This was recent factory stuff. It wasn't Kynoch. Just goes to show that you gotta check everything before you go hunting!
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Once upon a time I bought some "450 No2" ammo, a box of Softs and Solids.

None of it would chamber. I did a little measuring and discovered to was actually 475 No2 brass, headstamped 450 No2 and loaded with .458 480gr Woodleigh's.

I hesitate to say the manufacture [not Kynoch for sure], as I cannot remember exactly right now, the boxes were off white with black letters.


400Nitro might remember.

Bottom line is the 450 No2 and the 475 No2 are NOT the same case.

If you hold them side by side, you can see it with the naked eye...0.025 difference in rim diameter shows plain as day!
Trying to chamber one of these, would pretty much suck... while being mowed down by a buff.

I'll say it. It's Westley Richards ammo. I had the same problem when I went to test fire a double I was thinking of buying. Factory loaded 450 No. 2 but made with 475 No. 2 brass. It of course wouldn't chamber.

There is a lot of variation with chambers and ammo, so need to be sure no matter the manufacturers involved. Had some Kynoch factory 470 ammo that would not chamber in a Heym that I had.

quote:

Originally posted by Joshua W. Rich:
I'll say it. It's Westley Richards ammo. I had the same problem when I went to test fire a double I was thinking of buying. Factory loaded 450 No. 2 but made with 475 No. 2 brass. It of course wouldn't chamber.

Yes, that's it. Westley's rifle ammo is loaded by Wolfgang Romey. Most of Romey's brass is made by Horneber, and I assume also headstamped by them. Sounds like some .475 cases got mis-stamped and Romey didn't catch it. Scary.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

any way that beautiful 450#2 WR was reclaimed by the owner... So it went back home...

Also spoke to the WR rep and he had a very good time at the shows..Went home with 9 gun orders...

Mike