Which caliber would/did you choose for pigs and deer up to 100 yards; 7x65r or 8x57jrs? I think our European friends will chime here as I figure those calibers are far more common over there. The reason I am asking is I want to build a small cal DR on a classic European caliber and those seem the most practical and popular and I have dies for both already. But no rifles. I like the idea of the 8mm 196 grain bullet but I like 156 grain 7mms at higher velocity too. I already have an 8mm reamer too but don't let that influence answers.

I have both. Two sets of barrels for my Valmet 412. So far I really like the 8X57 JRS. Very accurate at 100 yards. I haven't gotten my 7X65R sighted in yet. Either will get the job done!

The 8x57 is the most popular double rifle cartridge in Europe. I have used it on driven boar hunts with success and found the recoil to be very mild. The 8x57 also has lower pressure than the 7x65.
If I was doing it I would choose the 8x57.

Good advice and rationale; thanks.

Since the range is only around 100 yards I would say go with the 8x57jrs it is a great round, especially in the thick woods, also very usable around bear country. I would be using my 30 06 Baikal (no comparison to your beautiful guns that you build, from the few pictures I saw) with heavy bullets for the same purpose. Incidentally what happened to that nice 9.3x74R you were building, did you finish it?

I would like to have had an 8x 57jrs in a drilling, did not happen, I ended up with a beautiful one with the 9.3x72, still a good cartridge.

Good luck

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best

Type of hunting

If there will be more running (risky) shots - 8x57.
If more of stationary (high seat - "sniping") hunting - 7x65.

Terrain

Open, clear terrain - 7x65.
Woodland, with a lot undergrowth - 8x57.

Scoped - 7x65.
Opensighted - 8x57.

7x65 might have a sligh edge at longer distances - but since that doesn't interest you at the end - each will do.

Good luck on pick.

The 30R Blaser is a pretty good choice as well.

7x65R with a 162g Hornady seems to work for me.
Right bbl through the shoulder of the first and a quick left quartering away for the second.

Thanks to all; and thanks Malek for your kind words but I am just a rank amateur. I had to bush the firing pins on my 9.3 so that set me back as they are a pain in the ass to make. But the pressures of a 9.3 are too much for a big shotgun pin hole. I am in the process of regulating my 9.3 and it is raining today; so far got it within 4 inches at 50 yards after only three sessions so that is not bad. It started out crossing 4 inches and I am sneaking up on it. One more time, hopefully and it will be right. 30 Blaser? No; brass and dies are way too hard and expensive to get. And it is not
old. I am leaning toward the 8x57 and it will have a scope. I will look for a good 20 ga frame to build it on. And thanks, Mouse, for your European perspective; that is what I was looking for; although Alberta, your rifle is very nice...is that a Krieghoff?

dpcd:

Good choice choosing the 8x57 and Good to hear that you are making head ways on the 9.3. Can't wait to see pix of the final product, although I don't mind seeing few before it is finished.

Alberta:

That is a beautiful duet. Can’t utilize a double in a better way. I was hoping to do the same right and left shots on my hunt yesterday, alas it did not happen. Well there will be more hunts in the near future God willing.

That is a beautiful looking rifle there, isn’t that a Sabatti that you can get up there in the 7x65?

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best

Yes its a Sabatti.

I have both in drillings. I've only used them for whitetails. From my less than vast experience, there isn't much difference. I would think it would be more about which one makes your sox go up and down. If you have either one with a good bullet like a partition, they would work well with any animals on your list. With that said, I like the 8x57 a bit more, just because.
Bfly

Thanks; I know there isn't much difference in the two as I have a 280 Rem and many 8x57 Mausers. I want one, or the other in a DR for those intangible reasons, just because.

For 100 yds and in, the 8x57. Beyond 100, I like the 7x65R best, and I have owned both, and really like both.

One of my biggest regrets is sellin my Merkel 140A in 7x65R.. It was so accurate and had no recoil at 8.5lbs. And a great piece of wood. I hope the new owner appreciates it more than I did.

Mike

Yeah, I am leaning toward the 8mm, for those 196 grain bullets; I figure that they will penetrate a big hog better than a faster 7mm will. That is why I like to use my 450-400 on them; I don't worry about penetration into the vitals from any angle. I am, however, intrigued by Alberta's Sabatti; that model is not imported into the US, I think?

Out of context - have you thought about 7.62 Russian? I have used it for quite some time on Red Deer and Boars - was very pleased with performance - sits in the middle somewhere.

No, that is good advice and that is a great cartridge; I don't know why it is not used more in DRs; it makes a lot more sense than inventing the 30 blaser. I already have a 7.62 Russ reamer too, from building custom Mosins;. . I have thought about it...I just wanted a sporting cartridge. Again, thanks for your insight.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yeah, I am leaning toward the 8mm, for those 196 grain bullets; I figure that they will penetrate a big hog better than a faster 7mm will.

I'm thinking that depends on what bullet is used. I'll bet you that a 7mm 175NP will out penetrate a 8mm 200NP.

I've shot a lot of big game with the 8x57 from moose and bear on down, and i do like it, but my experience with 7mm 175NP's tells me it will out penetrate the 8mm 200NP.

Both are great, but i'd choose the 7x65R for the less recoil in a light DR on non dangerous game..

Hmm... you could be right; I have never shot anything alive with an 8mm. But on the recoil calculations I have done, the recoil is exactly the same for a 196 grain at 2350 and a 156 grain at 2700. I thought the 156 was fairly standard for use in DRs. I have not made a firm decision yet although I did get a box of 8mm JSR last saturday but I traded a box of 7.65 Argentines for them so no problem. I like the 7mm too...... I have a 280 Ack Imp Masuer but that is like shooting a 7 mag. I know, I can do some penetration tests. I have lots of 8mm 98ks and the 280; I can load some rounds to DR velocities and see.

since i have both inside 100 meters almoust no difference,7x65r has edge on longer distane flatter shooter,i use 7x65r witg 177 gr rsw tig bullets for almoust 20 years now with perfect results on all game in europe and in canada,i agree with DM,it will outpenetrate 8mm

Hi Mike:

I have seen on your signature that you have this double, a Merkel 160.1-2 in the 8x75RS caliber.

Can you expound a little on this round, what bullet weight, velocity, pressure, etc. I know nothing about it and never saw it before.

Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I am, however, intrigued by Alberta's Sabatti; that model is not imported into the US, I think?

Me too, certainly a beauty and it seems to shoot very good despite the maker. Or is it the shooter behind the gun? definitely would like to hear about that hunt report.

I would like to know if they had the same issue with the muzzles which seems that finally the people at Sabatti got hold on their marbles and corrected it.

Also what kind of a price range you are able to get these rifles for?

Best regards
Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best

I shot this hog with my 8x57JRS(Pedersoli). My friend paced it off at 80 yards. Never got to use the sticks.


photo.JPG by tarawa1943, on Flickr

Nice pig!

Who's the old geezer?

According to Dominique Venner writing in L'Arme de Chasse Aujourd'hui,, the chamber pressure for the 8x57JRS is 2,900 bar compared to 3,300 bar for the 7x65R. In some actions, the difference might be significant. For reference, Venner lists a pressure of 3,000 bar for the 9.3x74R.

quote:

Originally posted by malek:
Hi Mike:

I have seen on your signature that you have this double, a Merkel 160.1-2 in the 8x75RS caliber.

Can you expound a little on this round, what bullet weight, velocity, pressure, etc. I know nothing about it and never saw it before.

Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best

Thanks for asking. The 8x75RS is 9.3x74R brass necked down to 8mm, and the RS means the rimmed version of the .323, and R only designation would be the .318.

This cartridge has often been compared to the .300 H&H or similar .300 mag. My rifle shoots 200 gr Speer Spitzers using 68 gr of RL-22 perfectly to both the iron sights and very close groups using the scope at 100 yeards. At 8.5 lbs, it's a dream to carry and the recoil is just fine.

My gun is the sidelock version and was the IWA gun of the year in 2005. Thanks for your interest.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Which caliber would/did you choose for pigs and deer up to 100 yards; 7x65r or 8x57jrs? I think our European friends will chime here as I figure those calibers are far more common over there. The reason I am asking is I want to build a small cal DR on a classic European caliber and those seem the most practical and popular and I have dies for both already. But no rifles. I like the idea of the 8mm 196 grain bullet but I like 156 grain 7mms at higher velocity too. I already have an 8mm reamer too but don't let that influence answers.

Of the two you list my pick would always be the larger bore, and heavier bullet! This is simply the best choice for a more wide range of animals it is able to do the job on under more conditions.

There is not a 1/4 inch difference in drop between the two at 100 yds, and no more than an inch at 175-200 yds. The larger and heavier bullet will do less damage to small targets, and will penetrate better on larger animals like black bear and moose!

I have hunted with 8mm rifles a lot and had a 8X57JR double, and still have an 8X57JR/16ga cape gun that is a damn fine hunting gun that will place a 196 gr bullet dead on the iron sights at 100 yds, and will place a Brenneke 16 ga slug right beside the rifle barrel at 100 yds. I have take mule deer at over 200 yds with the rifle side on many occasins, and the 196 gr bullet is deadly at that range. I see no benefit for the 7.65 over the 8MM, but there is benefit with the 8mm over the 7.65!

.............................All only my opinion but one from a base of experience with both on a wide range of animals both large and small!
..........................................................................

quote:

I shot this hog with my 8x57JRS(Pedersoli). My friend paced it off at 80 yards. Never got to use the sticks.

That is some nice shot with open sights, ideal practice at that distance/animal for an open sighted double.

I was under the impression that you rather knife them old budy.


mdstewart:

Thank you for the information about the 8x74R it looks like a very excelant round for all NA game. What kind of velocity are you getting with that load?


Right on MAC


Best regards

Malek
Good hunting/shooting and God's best

dpcd:

I think a 30-06 Baikal reamed to 30R Blaser.


Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best

Hello Malek
I have only witnessed a pig sticking....No knifes for me. Everytime I use one, I have to look for the "band-aids"!!!

quote:

Originally posted by malek:

quote:

I shot this hog with my 8x57JRS(Pedersoli). My friend paced it off at 80 yards. Never got to use the sticks.

That is some nice shot with open sights, ideal practice at that distance/animal for an open sighted double.

I was under the impression that you rather knife them old budy.


mdstewart:

Thank you for the information about the 8x74R it looks like a very excelant round for all NA game. What kind of velocity are you getting with that load?


Right on MAC


Best regards

Malek
Good hunting/shooting and God's best

I guess you better stay away from them knives.

PM is on the way.

Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best