The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles which makes a better round for doubles .303 or 30.06?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
I would like to know if the .303 or 30.06 makes a better cartridge for doublerifles? I know that Baikal makes an 30.06 double but what about the .303 in a doublegun? | ||
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The .30-06 is a superior round to the .303. That bieng said, I went to some effort to make my Baikal .30-06 double into a flanged ought-six. I am not the most experienced double guy in the world but after owning an ought six, I do believe that all doubles should be flanged. It would have been faster and easier to just rechamber the .30-06 to Blaser 30r. If I was in the states, I probably would have. Doing it here is beyond the pale...  Hope that helps! H. Cole Stage III, FRGS ISC(PJ), USN (Ret) "You do not have a right to an opinion. An opinion should be the result of careful thought, not an excuse for it." Harlan Ellison " War is God's way to teach Americans geography." Ambrose Bierce | |||
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Combine the attributes of the two and you get a .300 flanged. I'm still looking for one! Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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30-40 Krag; much larger selection of .308 bullets than .311/312. | |||
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Or...a .33 Winchester for good selection of .338 bullets. Or...a .348 Winchester as long as NF makes bullets for them. Or...as stated...a .30-40 Krag for .308 bullets. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Consider the Blaser 30R. Brass and dies are easy to come by and Chapuis chambers their UGEX in this round (I have one). 180 grain bullets coming out of the tube at 2,800-2,900 fps. More power than an 06, just slightly less than a 300 Win Mag. As far as the Baikal 30-06's. Crude ugly rifles but they are super accurate if you take the time to regulate them properly. Never had a failure to eject a case since owning one. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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| One of Us |
Most double rifle "Gun nuts" will tell you that a flanged cartridge is superior to non flanged ones for double rifles, and I agree. However, I have a high quality Italian over/under in .30-06, and a pre-war Austrian over under in .270, and have shot them for a good many years, especially the .270, without a single failure or problem of any kind. So, IF DONE PROPERLY, I am of the opinion that non flanged will function just fine, and are truly no more difficult to load quickly. Also, I have a side by side British .303, and my brother shot that caliber for years, using it on deer and elk. With that in mind, the .303 is certainly not in the same class as a .30-06, especially if used for hunting the big deer/moose, etc., though it is fine for deer hunting use. | |||
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| one of us |
The superior round for a 30-cal. double is, as Cal suggests, the .300 H&H flanged magnum. Problem is that commercial ammo for non-reloaders is mostly limited to expensive Kynamco in that caliber. Similarly, a double in .303 needs to be regulated to a specific weight of bullet (mine is the 215 grain Woodleigh at 2125 fps); and likewise for the 30-06. You could regulate either caliber to a specific commercial round, but then the double is effectively limited in the rounds that will shoot accurately and cannot really take advantage of the greater commercial supply of ammo. Still, you'd have cheaper ammo available... Regards, Tim | |||
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Thank you guys for the information, may you guys can help me on Baikal doublerifle vs Sabbatti, i know that Sabatti are better rifles but i am looking at a Deer and Hogs and Elk so can you guys explain why i should buy one or the other? | |||
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Its a (relatively) crude (regulate it yourself) $800 Baikal in 45-70 or 30-06 vs a $3000 nicely finished (now properly regulated) Sabatti in 45-70 or 9.3X74. Sorry but this is seriously apples VS oranges. "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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Tim, Why is the 300 H&H Flanged a superior choice to the Blaser 30R? Pick your grain weight and Chapuis will regulate the rifle as you specify. Once fired brass can be bought for $.50 each. New brass and dies can be bought from Huntingtons. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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Could someone rechamber a Baikal 30-06 to 300 H&H flanged? That would be perfect for a deer/hog rifle. | |||
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I would like the .30 Super (300 H&H flanged mag), too, but imagine it must have a pretty big rim that might give trouble. It has a sexier name than the Blazer 30R and better shape for easy extraction, though. What about an improved .30/40 Krag with the taper hardly expanded but the shoulder moved forward to leave a neck about the length of the .30/06's? If a big rim is not a prob, perhaps a .348 necked down to .308 might work. In this case you might be able to get a spare extractor made for the Baikal .45/70 and adapt it, though the .348 rim is fractionally bigger. You would not be loading these cartridges any higher than safe/regulated, of course. | |||
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I know of a fellow in Melbourne who simply resized and trimmed 7x65R brass to make a rimmed .30/06 for his Baikal. I understand that it worked well. For my part, I would always have a rimmed round in a double or break action - it makes for a simpler extractor and more reliable extraction. I currently have 7x57R in a drilling and 9.3x74R in a double. | |||
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For my part, when I ordered my double gun, I wanted a 300H&H. Nobody wanted to do it in the price range I was working in. Alternatives were 7x65r,30-06, 300WinMag, wasn't really interested in those, they bored me, so to speak. Looked at the 30RBlaser specs, they made sense to me, not quite a H&H, better than the '06, essentially it is a 30-06AI, with a rim, as to the performance specs. That was adequate for 98% of anything I'd ever ask that gun to do. The fact it was a bit different, turned my crank. And it gave me a lot of choices in guns. Krieghoff Classic 30R Blaser Stevens 044-1/2 218 Bee Ruger #1A 7-08 Rem 700 7-08 Tikka t3x lite 6.5 creedmo Tikka TAC A1 6.5 creedmo Win 1885 300H&H. 223Rem Merkel K1 7 Rem mag CCFR | |||
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The 30Blaser was specifically designed to clean out a 30-06 chamber so as to have a rimmed cartridge in a double rifle between the 30-06 and the 30-06AI ballistics with very little change in chamber pressure! IMO, it is one of the most balanced flanged cartridges in the .300 calibers for a double rifle used for plains game or cats on bait. With an illuminated scope in Quick detach bases a 30Blaser double would be a top choice for leopard on bait with it's absolutely instant second shot. ...........................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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If a .30-06 double rifle that was well regulated for a specific load was re-chambered to .30R Blaser would the rifle need to be re-regulated? I'm assuming that I could load the .30 R Blaser round to duplicate the ballistics of the original .30-06. Or am I missing something? By re-regulated I mean melting the solder joint and moving the barrels, not simply working up a new load. The goal would not be to gain velocity but to simply have a flanged cartridge. OR, would it be better to simply go the route that Bwana Cole took and convert to the 7x65r-06. How does the brass hold up after being necked out to .30 cal? Would there be any customs issues going to Africa with either conversion? The rifle could be re-stamped to indicate .30R Blaser but would the 7X65R-06 cause a problem??? | |||
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A 303 double would bring a great rifle. I'd love to have one. Anyone that doubt the effectiveness of the 303 Brit on moose needs to venture North of the dotted line a little bit. And if you'd hesitate to use it you are, to paraphrase Shoemaker, unwittingly commenting on your abilities as a rifleman. SCI Life Member DRSS "In those savage countries success frequently depends upon one particular moment; you may lose or win according to your action at that critical instant." Sir Samuel Baker | |||
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I would guess it would have to be re-regulated if you loaded the 30R to its full potential as it is a more powerful round than the 30-06 by about 150 fps. If you loaded it down to the 30-06 regulation load then you might be OK. My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost. | |||
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| One of Us |
The original question being "Which makes a better round for doubles .303 or 30.06?", the answer is .303 since it's a flanged cartridge. Besides that, any dissertation over the ballistic advantages of one over the other are purely academic, as I don't know of anything shot with either of them at normal double rifle hunting ranges that would be able to tell the difference. | |||
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| one of us |
I have one in an old Army/Navy. I feel that the 215 grain Woodleigh provides every bit of power needed for the class of game to be hunted with a .303. The large flange does make for easy extraction and I also feel it helps in loading as well. Frank | |||
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| One of Us |
My brass seems to be holding up just fine. I'm taking the gun to Namibia next year so we will find out if the headstamp on the brass causes and issue. I don't think it will but time will tell. If you want a reasonable gun for reasonable price with a flanged cartridge you would probably be best off finding a Baikal 45-70. For the ranges we are using the double for <100m the game would not know the difference. If I had found a 45-70 before the .06, it is what I would have bought. Still, playing with it is half the fun! H. Cole Stage III, FRGS ISC(PJ), USN (Ret) "You do not have a right to an opinion. An opinion should be the result of careful thought, not an excuse for it." Harlan Ellison " War is God's way to teach Americans geography." Ambrose Bierce | |||
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Cannot recommend Edouard Foa's "After Big Game in Central Africa" highly enough. He took four years to travel and hunt across 7,200 miles in the 1890s and the gun he ended up using most often by far was his little .303 double. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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| One of Us |
I am looking at a Baikal 45-70 and a Sabatti 45-70 and was wondering which would be the right on rifle? And 45-70 caliber in the Baikal i was wondering the chamber pressure with today rounds,so this is the reason i ask this.I know that the Sabatti make a better double rifle but what i read Baikal are alot on rifle for the money. | |||
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| One of Us |
Will, I can't speak to the Sabatti but there is plenty on this forum who can and have. The Baikal is like a russian tractor. It is solid to a fault. Horrible triggers but they can be worked easily enough. The action does not open very far but there are cheap and easy fixes from the cowboy action crowd. Is it a H&H?..no. Is it beautiful? No. Do they work. Yes. Are they inexpensive. YES. Are they fun. YES!!! It does not matter that it is cheap. When I show up to the range with it, I gets treated as if it were a 100$ Holland and Holland ;-0 H. Cole Stage III, FRGS ISC(PJ), USN (Ret) "You do not have a right to an opinion. An opinion should be the result of careful thought, not an excuse for it." Harlan Ellison " War is God's way to teach Americans geography." Ambrose Bierce | |||
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Get one in 7.62x54R. Rimmed and tapered like the 303 and performance like the 30-06. There, that solves everything. DR #2276, P-100 2021 | |||
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| One of Us |
Do not sell the .303 British short. If I had $1.00 for every moose, bear, and caribou that has been killed in Canada, with an old Lee Enfield, I would be a wealthy man. If you are interested, go to the "Building Double Rifles" page on Nitro Express.com. Look at the last two pages of my thread there concerning the double rifle that I built in calibre .303 British. You'll find photos of 7 animals that I took in South Africa with it, all but one(my fault) with one shot. A well constructed bullet, well placed, with a .303, will kill anything but heavy dangerous game. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles which makes a better round for doubles .303 or 30.06?
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