Hi Guys:

Well I just wanted to to give you an FYI on the Kynoch wads I finally received.

When I was loading 89 grains of RL-15 for my 470 NE I was using about 2 grains of dacron stuffing. I was getting very accurate groups but I still wanted to try the Kynoch wads.

I know some of you use wads, some use dacron, and some use nonthing at all. I usually weigh everything in my handloads. Just to let you know these wads only weight .9 to 1. grain, and I do believe they might give you a more constatnt pressure between the bullet and the powder charge.

But like they say the proof is in the pudding, I will let you know after I compare them to the dacron filler and see it it affects accuracy.

Regards.. Jim P.

PA hunter.
I was looking to consider the exact same load in my Heym 88. I received my Knoch wads the other day.
Through a few other posts I have received some good advice on propose projectiles and think I might just order some Woodleighs to be on the safe side. I was considering Swifts.
What type of double are you shooting and are you able to measure your velocity with 89 gr of RL 22? What maker of bullet did you use?

Thanks

Hi eezridr:

RL-15 NOT RL-22...............

I am shooting a Chapuis Brousse DR, bought it about 6 months ago. First I started with H4831 from 104 grains in one grain increments to 107 grains. Accuracy was in the 3 and 4 in group at 50 yards. I am using Jamison Brass, Federal 215 LR primers, and Woodleigh 500 grain softs and solids. I have read all the posts and I agree to stick with Woodleighs in Double Rifles. Why take the chance and they are tried and proven bullets. I am a huge Swift Aframe fan, but in MHO you gain nothing with a Swift over the Woodeleigh at the 2100-2200 FPS velocity range.

The H4831 kicked harder, had less velocity, and was not as accurate as the RL-15 powder. I started with 85 grains of RL-15 and worked my way up to 89 grains. My most accurate loads were 86 and 89 grains. I have to reverify my last group with the 89 grains. It shot about one inch for 4 shots L2/R2 at 50 yards.

I have been reloading for 32 years and I always use a Chrony in all my load testing for the past 15 years. With 89 grains and dacron stuffer in my 470 NE I am shooting 2,145 FPS. on the average.

Regards...

Looks like I am going to be buying allot of RL-15 between this 470 and my 416 Remington. Two powder hungry cartridges.
Sounds like you have found a load that is spot on for your 470!
Thanks for your data!

EZ

If buying RL-15 I would recommend buying a lot of the same lot. I worked up loads with a 5lb jugs I had for my 375 & 470 that were both shooting awesome. Then I bought some new powder and it took almost 4 more grains in the 470 to get the same speed and accuracy and alot more trips to the range again to work up the loads. Once I got the loads worked up I was able to buy another 3 more jugs of the same lot that I use only now for those rifles so I don't have to go through that again.

Where did you order the Kynoch wads? I would like some for my 450/400.

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
Where did you order the Kynoch wads? I would like some for my 450/400.

Trader Keith has the Kynoch wads
http://www.traderkeith.com/products.html

Hi Guys:

I tried Trader Keiths, and other sources to no avail.

The easiest way is to leave an email to Kynamco@aol.com.... It will be sent automatically to Ruth Little from Kynoch and tell her you want the Nitro Express Wads Size 2 /.400-.500. They come 100 to a pack. Two packs shipped from the UK will set you back $29.00 US Dollars.

She is great, poof done delivered to your door. Hurry they just got a shipment in.

Regards.. Jim P.

If those Kynoch wads are only 1 grain in weight, then they are an inferior way to go. They are just fluff, and you would be better off using a heavier packing foam.
Cut it from a sheet into discs using a chamfer-sharpened 50BMG case neck like a cookie cutter.

2 grains of Dacron is inadequate for the 470NE with said RL-15 load!


Ross Seyfried recommends 4 to 5 grains of Dacron for the 470 Nitro Express with RL-15.

I cram 5 grains of Dacron fluff into the case over the powder to pack it tight.

That will be more uniform in ballistics and far safer for all reasons than using the whimpy little "0.9 to 1 grain" Kynoch wad.

That Kynoch wad is silly!
Might as well use styrofoam as that!

I have the foam material. You just need a bridge punch set and bang out your own wads. I have been doing this for my 450/400. If you do a search for bridge punch and BobC as the author you should find ordering information on the punch set. I think I have a few of the larger Kynoch wads, I'll measure then.

Email me rkmojo@aol.com and I will send you enough faom to get started with. Then you can order you own.

RL-15 will give you more consistant velocities and less recoil than 4831. I use it in 450/400, 500 and 475#2 Jeffery.

RIP:

FYI.... I tried 5 grains of the Dacron I was using and buldged the case neck when I seated the bullet!! There is not much room between the powder charge and the stuffing or wad itself after 89 grains of RL-15.

Thousands and thousands of these wads have been used in the past. They will work.

If you can't get 5 grains of Dacron loaded then you better make it 4.
4 grains of Dacron would be better than any goofy $29.95/100 foam wad.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
If those Kynoch wads are only 1 grain in weight, then they are an inferior way to go. They are just fluff, and you would be better off using a heavier packing foam.
Cut it from a sheet into discs using a chamfer-sharpened 50BMG case neck like a cookie cutter.

2 grains of Dacron is inadequate for the 470NE with said RL-15 load!


Ross Seyfried recommends 4 to 5 grains of Dacron for the 470 Nitro Express with RL-15.

I cram 5 grains of Dacron fluff into the case over the powder to pack it tight.

That will be more uniform in ballistics and far safer for all reasons than using the whimpy little "0.9 to 1 grain" Kynoch wad.

That Kynoch wad is silly!

Might as well use styrofoam as that!

I have been using Kynoch wads for 4 years now with no issues. The purpose of the wad is to keep the powder against the primer. Does an excellent job.

With 89 grains of RL-15 in a 470 NE case, there is approximately one half inch of space left. To be exact there is .495 of space between the powder charge and the edge of a 500 grain Woodleigh soft point bullet.

The Kynoch wad is almost exactly one inch long. It is compressed a little over half its lenght to hold down the powder charge. It will work fine. As so many thousands of these wads were fired in the 470 NE before.

Since dacron and it's many other derivatives may all have a different density and weight, it is not an exact measurement to say it must be 5 or 6 grains in weight.

It was $29.00 for 200 wads, 100 in each bag. Do what ever the hell you want, but before you call a tried and true product goofy you should try it first or speak from experience.

With Woodleigh Bullet going for $69 to $89 dollars for 50 bullets, and the cost of 470 NE brass your going to complain about $14.50 for 100 wads.... what ever to each his own.

I have tested the same double rifle loads with dacron and foam fillers side by side. Using 3 different densities of filler.

I could detect no differences.

In prefer foam as it is easier to use, as opposed to weighing out each "tuft" of dacron.

Like Rusty I cut out my foam plugs, I use a 50 BMG chamfered case.

There is nothing special about the Kynoch wad in the 470NE.
It is silly to be dependent on a special source for a wad (Ooh ah ooh Kynoch oolalah!) when the 470 NE is so close to not needing a wad at all with RL-15.
I have been through the cutting of plugs from foam and the weighing of Dacron fluff.
I get even better results from using, depending on which 500-grain bullet, 108 to 110 grains of H4831 (long cut) and no filler.
That is what I like.
Thank you George Hoffman.

You might get into trouble relying on foam wads that are so light and fluffy as the Kynoch foam in the cases where there is more air space in the case.

Then the foam wad stack may become the evil "plastic worm" that Ross Seyfried talked about.

This would be in the Nitro For Black or BPE loads.

I just think it is strange that anyone thinks the Kynoch wad is worth the time to bother seeking it out for the 470NE,
rather than cutting your own foam wads or using the Dacron.
It is a trifling matter of no importance.

quote:

It is a trifling matter of no importance.

Like so many posts

quote:

Originally posted by PAHunter:
RIP:

FYI.... I tried 5 grains of the Dacron I was using and buldged the case neck when I seated the bullet!! There is not much room between the powder charge and the stuffing or wad itself after 89 grains of RL-15.

Thousands and thousands of these wads have been used in the past. They will work.

PA Hunter:

Actually, I think he's probably right on the one issue, and completely wrong on the other.

I've used Dacron in the DR flanged nitros for 20 years, in a variety of calibers. It works fine. I helped friend work up for a .500/.465 a while back - also a 75 Cordite round like the .470. Since I had usually used 5 grains Dacron with RL 15 in .470, I started with that in the .465. I immediately noticed the "Dacron" he had bought was completely different from any I had ever used. Very soft and limber, and it utterly refused to compact the way Dacron does. Small bunches of it would unroll and get trapped between the case wall and the bullet when the bullet was seated, bulging the neck, and preventing the rounds from chambering. I switched off to a fistfull of my own supply that I had brought with me, which worked perfectly. There was no way to get a safe, adequate amount of the stuff he bought into the case without bulging the neck. Yes, a half-inch space sounds about right, and 2 grains simply isn't enough. I have no idea what the difference was, but one worked perfectly and the other was exactly what you describe. I think maybe you got hold of some of the same stuff.

Nobody in the world has done as much testing specific to double rifle flanged nitro ammunition, including pressure testing with state of the art equipment, as Kynoch has. Every round of their factory ammunition from .400 up uses one of the same wads that they also sell to handloaders. To suggest that their wads are "inferior", "whimpy", or "silly" fails to rise to the level even of sophistry. Pay no attention to it.

I've used Dacron far longer, with no issues. I've also used the Kynoch product for several years with no issues. I use either interchangeably. Can't see a difference and don't have a preference.
--------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I will be switching from dacron to cotton from cotton balls... A friend of mine uses cotton in his H&H Royal...

Mike

Hi 450 NE:

quote:

Since dacron and it's many other derivatives may all have a different density and weight, it is not an exact measurement to say it must be 5 or 6 grains in weight.

Thats exactly what I was trying to say, that some Dacron substance are not all alike.

No big deal, since a bunch of new 470 NE DR owners were asking about the wads I figured I would give them a hand and tell them what worked and where to get it.

Regards.. Jim P

Here is a link to the place where BobC and I and others have bought the punch sets for making foam plugs.

12 Pc Hollow Punch Set