I see the 450 3 1/2 was introduced because of suposed pressure induced extraction issues with the 450 3 1/4 untill it was recognised that it was a brass wall thickness issue instead. When was the issue understood and the supply of better brass made? Did the introduction of the 3 1/2 mean the ceasation of the 3 1/4 chambering, or had the 470 completelty eclipsed the 450's because of the outlawed use in India and the Sudan. Thanks for any information.

Since the 450 3 1/2, which is actually based on the .500 case necked to .450, was introduced in 1903 and the .450 ban came out in about 1907, both it and the 450 3 1/4 were doomed. No one is really sure when the .450 ban occurred that I can find but the revolts in India and Sudan were late 1800s and it seems the ban took place in 1907 or so. H&H also had a 500/450 3 1/4 at around the same time, so it might have been a matter of which gun maker you used. I do not know when they figured out the thin brass problem with the original 450 Rigby.

The 450 Nitro Express 3 1/4" is still active and loaded by Hornady as well as others. It's hardy dead!

With all that determination in your post, it sounds like you just might have one? :-)

He does. I do too. In fact, all good Alaskans have one!

Matt

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
With all that determination in your post, it sounds like you just might have one? :-)

I have two 450NE 3 1/4 and 1 500/450 NE 3 1/4 so that might make 3 of them..

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Moore:
He does. I do too. In fact, all good Alaskans have one!

Matt

They'll make good squirrel guns come springtime!

Looks like I sent mine to a good home then!

Send more! Maybe they'll breed!

The 450 Nitro Express was introduced in 1898 by John Rigby and was based on the 450 3 1/4 bpe case. Shortly thereafter Holland brought out the 500/450 3 1/4 in an attempt to reduce the pressure with a larger bottlenecked case, they succeeded. The propellant at the time, cordite, was sensitive to the extreme temperature and problems could arise in the heat of India and Africa.

Jeffery designed the 450#2 3 1/2 in an attempt to reduce pressure even further with a larger case and to alliviate any extraction problems by using thicker brass. There is some evidence it was introduced in 1903.

All three of the cartridges were popular until the 1906 ban on importation of 450s and 303s into India.

Based on rifles that I've seen, the 450 3 1/4 was the most common. Webley built a substantial # of them that were branded by and sold through various gunmakers. The 500/450 was a Holland proprietary round and is usually found in their rifles.

All of them are great cartridges and rifles in the 450 nitro calibers are commonly found very well used. Unfortunately, they aren't found that often today as their service life was a rather short 8 years or so.

I am big fan of the .450's because of the availability of "cheap" bullets. I really like the .450 #2 because of the lower chamber pressure and its reloadability characteristics - namely a bottle neck case and the thicker rim. I really hate pulling off the rim from the .450-3 1/4" cases when full length sizing, though that is less an issue since I went to Hornady's lanolin based paste lube.

With Jamison brass still in limbo, brass availability for the .450 #2 is more tenuous, but it can be had from Bertram - for a price.

Anyway, getting technical and that was not the point of this thread - I am just a technical kind of guy - sorry.

Bottom line, I really like the .450 #2! I have one started for myself, perhaps someday, I will find the time to finish it.

Ellis

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Moore:
He does. I do too. In fact, all good Alaskans have one!

Matt

They'll make good squirrel guns come springtime!

They also make one hell of a fish gun....

http://s1122.photobucket.com/a...ent=FlyingBarbel.mp4

The .450NE, it does it all!

Hey Matt! Ya think we could try halibut fishing with them? Maybe a winter king or two?

People may have a hard time with this one. I have shot a free swimming halibut with my bow and arrow. We jigged them up and they were swarming under the boat. Someone said, I bet you can't hit one." Bad bet. I have been shooting fish with a bow since I was 14.

If we could get one to the surface and had a harpoon nearby, I would be game. I do not want to waste a good fish.

Matt

Matt, sounds like fun. I have been bowfishing since I was a kid (long before all these high performance bows/reels). I am not kidding when I tell people that I have shot more fish with my bow (and rifle) than I have ever caught with a pole!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Moore:
He does. I do too. In fact, all good Alaskans have one!

Matt

Make that three
If I had to do it over again, would still take the 450 NE 3.25 over the 470 ANY day of the week. .458 bullets always seem to go on sale, especially when people are dumping them in the classifieds. Pretty easy to make full power practice rounds for under $1 a piece.

quote:

Originally posted by Ellis:

With Jamison brass still in limbo, brass availability for the .450 #2 is more tenuous, but it can be had from Bertram - for a price.

Ellis

Graf has both .450 NE 3 1/4" and .450 #2 Jamison brass in stock now. I just ordered 100 pieces of .450 NE while it's still available.