Good Morning all,

Heading to Cameroon in May and been looking for a good solid Box Lock to take with for Forest Elephant,

I stumbled onto a fine 1912 WR Droplock ejector at what seems to be a reasonable price compared to what i saw when i was at SCI,

It is as clean as a whistle and is within 1inch at 40 yards on L and R barrels,

I have never owned a WR have been a Rigby Guy for years,

What I am looking for is some comments from you Double Lovers if a Vintage Box Lock retains its value compared to the side locks,

JK

All vintage guns in un moneyed with retain their value. If you are looking for a nice modern gun at a reasonable price ZZZ here on AR has a VC 470 as new for sale cheap.

I wonder if the USF&W Serviced ban on the importation of legally hunted CITIES permitted bulls from Tanzania and Zimbabwe will effect medium and big bore DR prices.

Srose meant to write "un=monkeyed with condition" I'm pretty sure.

JPK

Thx Guys,

i believe there are enough Guys purchasing Doubles out side of the USA to keep there prices constant while this ban is fought,

srose it took me almost 6 months to import a Rifle once so i just buy Local with in Africa

also I like the Vintage, never been into the new Doubles,

Well I think the Westley Richards droplock has a sterling reputation; it is not a boxlock in the regular sense of the term.

Hi PS

this Double is going for $40k its as clean as can be and the bores are well with in proof,

Is this to much for a droplock?

reg

JK

I have long lusted after WR droplocks and never expect to see them for less than 50K USD.
If I had the money to blow, WR droplock would be my pick, 470 NE or 500 NE, no larger is needed. H&H Royal, "bespoke" is also not needed.

Here is one at Hallowell's, 1923 model, but single trigger, tisk, tisk.
The spare .375 H&H belted barrel set add-on in 1986 with a Leupold 2.5X scope would not add very much to value for me.
I would prefer double triggers, and all original.
If yours has double triggers that is a plus on the value, with none of the other claptrap.

http://www.hallowellco.com/double.htm



Westley Richards Droplock Ejector Double Rifle .470 Nitro Express $54,950

Two Barrel Set and .375 H&H Magnum

28" SxS original .470NE platform-lump barrels with folding-hooded ramp

front sight, folding twilight bead, smooth concave rib and raised matted

quarter rib with four folding gold-lined express sights regulated for 50, 100,

200 & 300 yards. 28" SxS 375 H&H belted magnum chopper-lump barrels

added by the maker in 1986 with matching front sight equipment, smooth

concave rib and engraved quarter rib with three folding express sights

regulated for 100, 200 & 300 yards. 14 5/8" Pull from maker's single

selective trigger to leather-covered recoil pad. 1 1/2" - 2 1/4" Drop. Fully

figured dark walnut stock with separate Deeley-release beavertail Southgate

ejector forends for each barrel set, smooth horn capped pistol grip, classic

point-pattern checkering, classic comb and rear swivel stud. Casehardened,

scroll-engraved droplock action with Model C active doll's head third bite, bushed

firing pins, extended top and bottom tangs, and with manual top tang bolted

safety with SAFE in gold. Weight: 11lbs, 14oz as a 470NE; 11lbs, 9oz as

an iron-sighted .375H&H. Leupold M8 2.5x Compact scope on Lenard

Brownell quick-detachable mounts fitted for the .375 barrels. Built 1923.

Recently restored by J J Perodeau and with casehardening by Turnbull.

Tight, and with fine bores. All in nearly-new Huey-type fitted oak & leather

case with turnscrews, cleaning equipment, snap caps for both calibres,

maker's trade label and leather-trimmed canvas overcase.

One more WR:

This is also not quite a comparable for pricing, but it is some nice WR gunporn at Champlins, redeeming social value, don't you know.

This is a RIFLE.

At only 12#5oz for a 577 NE, I could put up with it.
There is nothing here that a 5/8-inch thickness of leather slip-on pad would not fix right up for me:

http://www.champlinarms.com/De...StyleID=3&GunID=2385

Made in 1907
577 NE
$67,500.00

Morning All

Thanks Rip for that info, I had a great day with the WR today, it shot like a dream and Know and understand the difference with the Drop lock system,

It’s going to be a pleasure to hunt with it in the forest especially with the ease of cleaning it,

I should have taken a few photos to post, will do that once it’s officially in my gun safe

JK

Excuse me for asking, but what is the difference between a Box Lock and a Drop Lock ?

I am sure the Double Experts will explain better, but what I saw was that there is a plate at the bottom of the double, below the action that clips open and exposes the locks,

These are then easy to remove and clean as and when necessary

Where with a traditional box lock or side lock you have to strip the Rifle in order to clean the locks,


This is what I understood it to be,

Congratulations on the new rifle!

Congrats, jkhunter, sounds like you got a deal.
Self maintenance by owner of the locks, inspecting, cleaning and lubricating, eliminates the pesky trips to gunsmith.

Is there any stronger or better DR action than a WR droplock?


Droplock info from Hallowell's:

"Droplock - A variation on the Anson & Deeley boxlock design, introduced by Westley Richards at the end of the 19th Century, whereby the locks themselves are removable, without tools, from the action body for cleaning or repair through a hinged or a detachable floorplate. A droplock action may be distinguished from an ordinary Anson & Deeley action at sight because it has no action pins visible on the side of the receiver."

Thanks all I am stoked, I will post a full array of Photos in the next few days, yes I believe it was a good deal, landed up at $38k

Ek sal bitter graag n drop lock nog wil besit. ;-)

That picture from RIP did the " job " It seem that WR got the patent in 1897 if I understand their web pages correct !

Looking forward to pictures JK on the USD 38k rifle. New today it cost from 54.500 pounds which is approx USD 88.000,-. A good USD 50.000,- saving you could say

quote:

Originally posted by jkhunter:
Good Morning all,

Heading to Cameroon in May and been looking for a good solid Box Lock to take with for Forest Elephant,

I stumbled onto a fine 1912 WR Droplock ejector at what seems to be a reasonable price compared to what i saw when i was at SCI,

It is as clean as a whistle and is within 1inch at 40 yards on L and R barrels,

I have never owned a WR have been a Rigby Guy for years,

What I am looking for is some comments from you Double Lovers if a Vintage Box Lock retains its value compared to the side locks,

JK

JK

Great find! I would say the the WR hand detachable locks compares favorably to the Best London side locks. You shouldn't have to worry about its value. The drop locks are unique unto themselves and are a marvel of Victorian engineering and something you should proudly use as much as possible. If interested WR can look up the build page for the rifle and send you a copy. I think I paid £65 for that service recently. If it's an earlier version, careful not to misplace the bottom lock plate newer ones are hinged.

$38K sounds like a nice deal to me as long as it all checks out OK. Doubt there is one out there anywhere for less.
The droplock is quite a design and I wonder why it was held as a Westley Richards specialty and not used by any other maker even after the patent ran its course.
Interestingly, my own WR double has a hinged floorplate but is in fact a pinned boxlock. Probably because WR built it up from an existing gun and for whatever reason, it was converted to a boxlock.
If your gun has a single trigger, I wouldn't worry much. Many WR single trigger shotguns have literally tens of thousands of rounds through them without a hitch and I would expect nothing but flawless performance in your rifle. If there has been a confirmed malfunction of the WR single trigger, I haven't heared of it.
It could be converted to double trigger but I don't think I would bother.

Congratulations. Sounds a great buy and it appears it fits you.

Looking forward to the photos.

Cheers, Chris

What a beautiful shotgun, but did any other duplicate the
droplock?Because I remember see one that wasnot a WR.

I've only seen one beautiful executed Japanese drop lock 12bore. Almost indistinguishable from a WR, but then there are great Japanese examples of the venerable H&H sidelock and A&D boxlocks also. But no, there has been no "production copies" of the WR hand detachable locks, as it's named officially in the original WR marketing literature, that I'm aware of. Mine is a WR SST also and has never malfunctioned.

While I certanly would prefer two triggers on a double, the WR single trigger rifles have a great reputation and I would be happy to own one, especially a droplock.

Much like the Rigby Rising Bite, the WR droplock was unique and there can't be very many of them out there.

Elmer Keith had a WR .470 boxlock with a single trigger, and Ernest Hemingway had a WR .577 droplock with a single. I've shot both rifles and they worked 100% of the time for me! But that was only two shots each, ha ha.

Old Elmer knew his way around firearms so if it was good enough for him that ought to be good enough for the rest of us.

Here are a couple of photos of the Keith and Hemingway WR rifles where you can clearly see the pins on the boxlock and lack of pins on the droplock.





Congratulations again on your new rifle, looking forward to photos and hunt reports.

OK, I'll take a single trigger, but only if it is a WR droplock.
The Norwegian pointed out this:

http://www.westleyrichards.com/

1812: William Westley Richards was born in 1789. He was given a good education and founded his gun making factory in 1812 when he was only 22. He took out an extensive list of patents, nine in all, the first in1821 for improvements to gun and pistol locks. Some of these derived from his own practical experience as a shot and his observation of the requirements of the sportsman who used his guns. His famous motto was always: "to be the maker of as good a gun as can be made", which remains the motto of the company today.


1815: William Westley Richards had the foresight to appoint a London agent, William Bishop, known colloquially as "The Bishop of Bond Street". He was a master salesman who became a legendary Regency sporting character and he managed the shop at 170 New Bond Street for over fifty years.


1858: The most significant of the many innovations by Westley Richards, the eldest son of the founder, was the breech and muzzle-loading carbine, which became known as the 'Monkey Tail' owing to the profile of the long lever which operated the breechlock.


1862: Westley Richards patented a new type of single sliding snap bolt, known as a 'doll's head' extension, an inspired technical improvement which became a defining element of the Westley Richards and most other sporting guns.


1865: When William Westley Richards died in 1865, the firm was taken over by his eldest son, known only as Westley Richards, who had worked under his father for many years. Westley Richards left his mark upon every branch of the industry, and did more for the practical advancement of gunnery than any man of his time. His name is rightly legend in British gun making circles.


1868: Westley Richards developed a hinged falling- block breech-loader. When the falling- block Martini rifle was adopted in 1868 as the standard British infantry rifle, it was found to have infringed Westley Richards' patents (1931 of 1868) in "the principle of construction". The British government was obliged to pay £43,000 in royalties.

1871: The Company played a critical role in developing the solid drawn brass cartridge (patent 1572 of 1871) which allowed guns to move from single shot to repeating or automatic. Metal case cartridges were not unknown but Westley Richards developed a longer, stronger case suitable for higher velocity cartridges for use in both military and sporting weapons.


1871: The most important innovation to be patented in the years immediately after the retirement of Westley Richards was for a new rifle with a breech mechanism of the sliding block type. Known as the Deeley-Edge Rifle it was named after John Deeley the Elder, who in 1871 became the sole commercial manager of Westley Richards & Co. and James Edge who was foreman of the company's Sporting and Military Rifle Department.


1875: The first really successful hammerless gun was developed by Westley Richards & Co. using the Anson and Deeley patent action. Employing a top lever opener the new system introduced the principle of using the 'fall' of the drop-down barrel in place of the need for a manual effort on an external hammer to cock the locks of a shotgun. Simple, efficient and safe, this considerably reduced the number of parts required in the action and removed the need for unsightly and dangerous external hammers. The Anson and Deeley 'boxlock' action marked the transition to the modern hammerless shotgun which is still in use today.


1884: One of the most important contributions made by Westley Richards & Co. to the advancement of the sporting gun and rifle was the development of the ejector mechanism. Under John Deeley the Younger the 'fore-end ejector mechanism' was invented and patented, a brilliantly simple system whereby the spent cartridge could be automatically expelled on opening the gun.


1895: Westley Richards & Co. was an important pioneer in the field of the one-trigger mechanism, by which a single trigger, adapted to a double pull could be employed to discharge both barrels of a double-barrelled shotgun, independently of the recoil, which could vary and thus affect the accuracy of the shot.


1897: If the name of Westley Richards is associated with one thing amongst collectors and sportsmen today, it is for that most distinctive of the patents of the early twentieth century: the hand detachable lock (an ingenious variant on the Anson and Deeley action) first patented in 1897 and known in the USA as a 'droplock'.


1899: Leslie Taylor succeeded John Deeley the Elder as managing director of Westley Richards & Co. in 1899, seeing the company through the First World War and through the 1920's. He won renown for the Westley Richards hallmark feature, the hand detachable gun lock, as well as new designs of bullets for the sporting gun. A ballistician of national reputation he was perhaps best known in sporting circles for the development of the 12 bore 'Explora' shot and ball gun, the 20 bore and 28 bore version were referred to as the 'Fauneta'.


1906: Legendary elephant hunter James Sutherland wrote the following about his Westley Richards .577 double rifle: "After experimenting with and using all kinds of rifles, i find the most effective to be the double .577 with a 750 grains bullet and a charge in the Axite powder equivalent to a hundred grains of cordite. when using the double- barrelled rifles against big and dangerous game it is of supreme importance to have a thoroughly reliable ejecting mechanism, and I find that a single trigger is a vast improvement on the old double trigger."


1920: Westley Richards & Co. maintained a high profile during the 1920s for its sporting guns and rifles. Many of the finest were commissioned by the wealthy Indian princes and the two most important clients during this period were the Maharaja of Patiala and the Maharaja of Alwar who owned large numbers of Westley Richards guns, especially sporting rifles associated with tiger shooting. This was also one of the boom periods for African safaris.


1926: George Eastman, the wealthy founder of Eastman Kodak, owned two Westley Richards rifles and a shotgun which he took on his two East African safaris in 1926 and 1928. He referred directly to them in his published account, Chronicles of an African Trip (1927): "They are beautiful specimens of British workmanship - British workman have no rivals in gun-making by hand".


1953: Ernest Hemingway the journalist, author and adventurer was a proud possesser of a Westley Richards .577 which he used on safari in Africa in 1953 - shortly after the publication of his novel The Old Man and the Sea and just before he received the Nobel Prize for literature. Hemingway was an enthusiastic huntsman and helped create the image of the courageous big game hunter in the popular imagination. He has also been credited with introducing the Swahili word 'safari' into wide usage in the English language.


etc, etc.

http://www.westleyrichards.com...uble-rifles/droplock

Above brings one up to date for a new order.

Or to get the history of that vintage investment:

http://www.westleyrichards.com/services/gun-histories




Guns International "as new condition" 470 NE WR Droplock only $72,500.00:

http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100420371

WR published a very nice book on their 200th anniversary. I couldn't find it in the US anywhere so I ordered it on their UK site, Paid in Pounds Sterling when it arrived, the postmark was from...their store in the US.

Sounds like a debate about blondes or brunettes. How could you really go wrong?

The WR Droplock in my opinion is the best of the best...I don't think much of the WR boxlocks made after WWII....
You did well in a FANTASTIC Caliber...but I might be prejudiced??

Cheers,

Congratulations. What an excellent find. I'm jealous like you can't believe.

Thx Guys

when i get back from Cameroon i will send a full report on how it performed

JK

jk, it is really a great thing to take the rifle back out into the field. That's where these rifles should be. Congrats and good luck on the hunt.

I am taking my WJ Jeffery .450 No. 2 to Zimbabwe next year, can't wait.

FYI, George Caswell of Champlin's had a very nice 476 WR Droplock, single trigger at SCI, asking $38K I understand it sold to the fellow that bought Hemmingway's rifle and other doubles with provenance. That caliber is harder to get cartridges for but due to it's rarity may have been more attractive....the fact that is sold so quickly, ie BETWEEN Dallas and SCI says it was priced right!!
JK, you have a real classic that deserves to be hunted...great price and spectacular rifle!!
Anxious to hear your hunting report- Best of Luck in the field!!
Cheers

[URL= ]470[/URL]

Congratulations - these are fine weapons. My own 470 above

quote:

I have long lusted after WR droplocks

Ditto!

Jaz, does your rifle have the single trigger?

I'm taking my "Poor Man's" WR .500 NE on my next sojurn. A hammer Jones underlever. It is accurate and balanced and I feel as rich as a if I owned a Royal Deluxe. Will be a great experience with an old survivor. If only guns could talk.

Dutch

What's it really worth if you can't hunt with it?

Paul - no, double triggers