Today I happened to be browsing around and discovered that the Kodiak Mk IV is chambered for 9.3x74. I know that converting their 45/70 to .450NE is a popular way to get a budget DG double rifle but never knew that they had chambered this fine cartridge. Has anyone out there got any experience with it? For under $4000, anyone with a passion for hammerguns must be drooling over the thought. Who knows? It might even be enough to make me brave the perils of economy class and go back to Africa again.

You asked if anyone had experience with it, but not clear if you meant with the Kodiak rifle, or with the 9.3sx74R cartridge. I have no experience with the Kodiak, but have considerable experience with, and own, various double rifles, o/u as well as side by side, classic English, classic German, Belgian, Spanish, etc., and modern made double rifles, French, German, Italian, Spanish, etc. in this caliber. Have hunted extensively with the caliber as well, in Montana and Oregon especially. Have also hunted extensively with numerous other calibers, from .303 British to .500 NE in double rifles, and I must say that I now can understand and appreciate how the Europeans like the caliber so much, for it is a wonderful cartridge, I think the best classic early cartridge ever developed by the Germans. Rather than a Kodiak, if one can get away from the outside hammers, why not try another Italian double in same caliber, the Sabatti? They make their one model, color case hardened, at around $3000, and a far better model that resembles their big model, but scaled down, for $4,000 (see it tested and praised in January issue of Guns magazine), or go all out and get the big brother model in .450/.400, .450, .470, or .500, for $5000 (see Cabelas, retailing them). Beyond doubt, the best buy on market right now. I may sound as if I sell them, but I don't, am only a very satisfied customer with three of them now, in different calibers.

Make sure that you handle one before making a purchase decision on this. I had a Kodiak (one of the older ones) in .45-70 and eventually got rid of it for one reason only: excessive weight (the gun, not me). I never weighed it but it had to be 10 pounds. The gun was nicely fitted, shot well, very reliable, etc. The weight was simply much more than it needed to be for the cartridge.

I have an O/U double in 9.3x74 that is right around 7 pounds, and it is a delight to carry and shoot. The thought of this wonderful little cartridge in that PIG of a rifle isn't pleasant. JMHO of course.

John

I just sold one in 9.3X74 a week ago. It's a good starter rifle and pretty accurate right out of the box with most types of ammo I tried. Including my handloads.

I think they use the same barrel profile for all the calibers so the 9.3 is plenty heavy at about 10#.

Here is a picture of my trio of doubles. I don't find them that heavy. Recoil is non existant. They point and shoot just fine.

Top 8x57JRS
Middle 45-70
Bottom 9.3x74R (thanks Mike!)

Very nice!!

Very nice in spades! Love to see targets from all three.

Those are some good looking rifles!! Have you killed anything with them?

For the same money as you mentioned above, it would be worth looking at the less-expensive hammerless doubles unless you just want a hammer gun. Back when the Euro was low and you could find them for under $2000 on the auction sites it was a better buy.

My Kodiak in 45-70 has worked well for me so far. It is on the heavy side but it sure helps tame the recoil and makes it a lot more fun to shoot. This was the first with the Kodiak but hogs are coming.



Here was one of the early targets. Have trimmed some off the groups at 50 as of late.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldsarge:
Today I happened to be browsing around and discovered that the Kodiak Mk IV is chambered for 9.3x74. I know that converting their 45/70 to .450NE is a popular way to get a budget DG double rifle but never knew that they had chambered this fine cartridge. Has anyone out there got any experience with it? For under $4000, anyone with a passion for hammerguns must be drooling over the thought. Who knows? It might even be enough to make me brave the perils of economy class and go back to Africa again.

Sarge,
I had one of the first ones that Trail Guns Armory imported years ago.
It arrived as a 45-70, later was cut to 45-90 and finally 45-120.(all loaded to modern pressures)
The rifle remained an accurate gun with all chamberings.
I have not fired one in 450NE but I imagine my 120 loads would be quite comparable.

Traded it years ago on a "better" DR-- someone out there got a good gun.

My guess is that the Kodiak MK IV and hogs make for a good combination.
Poor man's double and poor man's dangerous game.

They are heavy for caliber, but that can be fixed with a milling machine. In my experience they shoot very well. I had an early 45-70 that would put six rounds three from each barrel in a 3 inch group on the target at 100 yards from the bench, useing only one rear flip-up and the load I was useing was a fairly hot load for my 45-70 Ruger No1. I have another one today that has been rechambered to 458 RCBS that will do the same.

On the weight, it isn't so much the total weight, but the fact that they are very muzzle heavy. The fix is to mill down the top bottom, and the out side of each barrel to look like a tapered octigon barrels. This releaves weight at the muzzle, and forward two thirds of the barrels, ballanceing then far better. A simple re-browning is an easy home finish for the milled and polished surfaces.

There is a gun smith in Oregon who has the tools from the old guy who used to re-bore double rifles without seperating the barrels. The older 45-70s have barrels that are thick enough to be rebored, and re-chambered to 577 Snider, or 577, 2 3/4" black powder cartridges.

Cool pics guys, thanks for sharing!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
There is a gun smith in Oregon who has the tools from the old guy who used to re-bore double rifles without seperating the barrels. The older 45-70s have barrels that are thick enough to be rebored, and re-chambered to 577 Snider, or 577, 2 3/4" black powder cartridges.

Now that sounds like an interesting idea. I wish that I had heard or thought of something like that before selling mine.

John

Thanx, guys, I don't find ten pounds unbearable. My beloved .375 is 9.5 and the Big Killer is 10.25 and I carry them all day in Africa or the Arctic. Very nice trio, Tarawa.

In the event I come across a 45/70 for a feloniously low price, who does rechambering in.450 NE?

quote:

Originally posted by Oldsarge:

In the event I come across a 45/70 for a feloniously low price, who does rechambering in.450 NE?

Dig up some of the old threads discussing this for more info, or ask PWN375, but I think his was done at MacKool's. I could be wrong.

You've been thinking about this for a good while, haven't you?

Pardon a probably dumb question, but if the rifle was regulated with/for 45-70, how or would it shoot if rechambered to .450NE?

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo .450:
Pardon a probably dumb question, but if the rifle was regulated with/for 45-70, how or would it shoot if rechambered to .450NE?

I was wondering the same thing, but my 45-70 shoots well with various bullet weights. Others have said that they rechambered theirs to 45-90 to 45-120 with little or no change to accuracy.

Also note that the extractor must be modified for a thinner rim case.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldsarge:
Thanx, guys, I don't find ten pounds unbearable. My beloved .375 is 9.5 and the Big Killer is 10.25 and I carry them all day in Africa or the Arctic. Very nice trio, Tarawa.

In the event I come across a 45/70 for a feloniously low price, who does rechambering in.450 NE?

I have noticed that while hunting in Florida with my Kodiaks, just when you think the gun is getting a little heavy, a hunter will come by and want to hold it for a while. The joys of hunting with a double.
They seem to put a smile on peoples faces.

Nemo .450 : How would it shoot? That is a roll of the dice. Might be not as bad as some of the
new Sabatti that people are buying.

Again, if you do some research here there are a number of old threads about the Pedersoli conversion. If I recall correctly, those who did it reported needing a front sight height adjustment but regulation seemed acceptable. Of course, there is no guarantee yours would also be acceptable, and there is some issue with the barrel-joining method used by Pedersoli that might make re-regulation more expensive than with other doubles (silver solder?).

This is just my recollection so caveat emptor.

And if you did dig thru the search I think you'll
the old threads you'll find that the caliber of choice was 450 NE #2. Some outfit on Oklahoma was doing it IIRC.

Wow, anybody have one for sale?

quote:

Originally posted by Mssgn:
Wow, anybody have one for sale?

keep checking Cabelas

Ah, MacKool's! That was the name. Now I gotta find me a Pedersoli . . .

As I read the last Sabatti thread, I am glad that I have purchased a few bargain Pedersolis. I think I get better response to my questions from Gloria at Pedersoli, than most people get from Cabelas about their Sabattis.
I know that with my shooting I don't shoot 2" groups, I only shoot accurately enough to bring home the bacon.

Hey now, don't rub it in...

I congratulate you on ALL your Pedersoli doubles though!

Kinda makes me wish I had got one...

I can visualize one in 45-90 or the 120 case. I have a Wickliffe in the 120 case being case hardened and the furniture browned as we speak.

Double hammer rifles just have that look to them...

Rich

Nemo,
I have been following your thread religiously waiting for you to say that you got the perfect rifle. I still expect to read that post soon. I was at the Shot Show two years ago in Orlando Florida and EAA was showing off the Sabattis and the deluxe version that they had there even had engraved game scenes. My friend put in his order at the show for a 600NE. The Sabatti 600 and his rifle never materialized (thanks to Cabelas). All the other dealers that ordered guns were also disappointed. I still want one but the Pedersolis just happen to present themselves to me...thanks to a few board members. Good luck with the Sabattis. I will have one too someday.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemo .450:
Hey now, don't rub it in...

I congratulate you on ALL your Pedersoli doubles though!

Kinda makes me wish I had got one...

tarawa,

Thanks for the well wishes.
It really stinks that Cabelas has the corner on the market with the Sabattis, really a bum deal all the way around.

Taking from all the experiances of the folks here (me included), most Sabattis are decent DRs for the money. With my experiance with them (and Cabelas) I would never buy one without inspecting it in person. If you can't personaly check it out first, you'd better pray you get a good one... I hope you get one though, a good one that is.

What has become of the EAA 45-70 and 30-06 Baikals? Since Remington dropped them, I thought EAA was going to continue to sell them under their USSG name.

I have shot and handled a 9.3X74 Kodiak MkIV, and as other have stated it is quite muzzle heavy. Other than that I thought it was pretty cool.

quote:

Originally posted by tarawa:
What has become of the EAA 45-70 and 30-06 Baikals? Since Remington dropped them, I thought EAA was going to continue to sell them under their USSG name.

Used one's pop up on Gunbrokers once in awhile and sell for about double what they originally sold for.

USSG has the Baikals cataloged for 2011. I tried to get a Sabatti through them, but Cabelas has the 'exclusive' on them for the next couple of years.

That didn't matter too much for me, I just used my Cabelas points and members only offers to get the price in the same ballpark.