I spoke to a dealer who has a Powell double rifle for sale in this caliber for $6,500 and he is willing to take a trade-in's as well.

I googled the ballistics of this round and see that it's a 400 grain bullet at only 1,400fps...is this correct? If so, it's way underpowered for Elephant, and I won't consider buying it.

Anyone have any imput?

The velocity is too low so whatever you looked at is not quite right.

I don't have the info to hand ATM.

So this is Not a 500 Nitro then? I know it's a black powder load.

I never heard of this round....what was it used for?
The rifle itself looks very old, but it was re-joined and the test target looked pretty good.

500 black powder express is definitely *not* 500 nitro express.

The 500 BPE is (in period perspective) a light rifle for thin-skinned game.
Would be really nice for whitetail, bear, and hogs here in the states though!

Tell us who's offering it, someone here might be interested in taking a look at it if you don't want to buy it.

You can likely find a used low-priced 500 nitro in the $8500+ neighborhood if you do your homework.
Someone had one for just under $8000 here in the classifieds recently.


Cheers
Tinker

Thank you for your reply.

The gun is being sold by Vintage Doubles for only $6,500. Like I said it looks like a real old gun but sounds like a nice one.

I am not interested in the gun now, since I wanted to use it for a cull Elephant, but those ballistics won't cut it. Besides, who wants to start the 45-70 for African game debate!

The 500 3.25 Express can shoot a bullet from 440g.-480 g. depending on the maker, etc. According to Grame Wright's book Shooting the British Rifle the above cartridge accoring to ICI (1926) the blackpowder loads for the 440 g bullet gave a fps of approx. 1775 and the 480 g gave approx. 1700 fps. the nitro for black load for the 440 g bullet gave 1900 fps.The 500 3.25 inch nitro load used the 570 g bullet with a velocity of 2150 fps.
MY H & H 3.25 Express was made in 1898 with steel barrels and really likes 480 g bullets with a nitro for black load.
I agree the rifle you looked at is probably not what you want for elephant.

Thanks Jim..too bad because for $6,500 I would have grabbed it in a minute.
I am dying for a big-bore double, but can't seem to find one for under ten grand, which is way over my limit. I would rather spend the money on a hunt.

Keep looking. I found mine on an Aussie website about 8 years ago. It had been restocked, excellent condition, a H & H Royal (originally sent to India)with underlever hammerless in case for less than 10K.
If I remember the exchange rate at the time was in my favor. Since it was made in 1898, it was sent to the nearest international airport and I made 3 stops- the freight express office, the customs office then back to the express office. There was no import tax.
Good luck!

Great find!

I'll settle for a beat-up Merkel

Jim M: The Wright book lists 57-61gr of 4198 for
a 440 gr bullet. Did you back off a little because of the 480gr weight of your bullets??
Thanks

577NE: I used 60g. of H4198 with the 480g. bullets.Have not tried just 4198 yet.
Jim

Jim what make of 480 grain bullets do you use? I've been using the Woodleigh 440's with great success but they shoot high to the sights in my H&H. Thinking the 480's may be a better choice. I have the H&H ledger page for mine but it doesn't list what bullet weight it was regulated for.

Thanks,
Josh

Jim M: Thanks for that info. I think H4198 is
just a bit slower than IMR 4198-maybe 2 grains
worth. I also don't know where to find 480gr
bullets. Hawk would probably make them. Wondering what your gun weighs.
Thanks again.

PS: That 40 grain increase in weight raises the
sectional density from .242 to .264.

Vera Smith made me a mould that cast 473 g. without gas check. I cast with lynotype and use gas checks. I have not tried the Woodleigh bullets. The rifle weighs 9lbs. 8 oz. Has a standing rear sight for 50 yds. and folding sights for 100, 200 & 300 yds.The front has a removable blade and flip-up night sights.Cased with acessories however no H&H bullet mold or loading equipment.
The rifle was ordered as a gift for a Rajah's brother and finished on Dec. 28, 1898. Ah to have a brother that would do that for you now!!!!!
When I have a chance I will post a photo.
Jim

Jim: Thanks for the info. I also have a Holland
.500, 3 1/4. Is yours a 3 1/4? I've had problems getting 3 1/4 brass into my chambers, and have been using 3" brass. Have you had such
problems? Mine was made in '92, and has all the
same features as yours. Weight 9lbs 3oz. It is
a great shooter with Woodleigh 440's.

Mine is 3.25 inch chambered. Yes the brass I have was too tight to chamber with a loaded round. I needed to remove metal from the end of the case. The loaded round then chambered easily. The brass I use is HDS. The brass on one side measures 0.015. I removed 0.005 giving a measure on each side of the brass of 0.010.
The chambers measure .537 approx. 3 inches into the chamber. With a .510 bullet in the unturned brass the loaded round measured around 0.540. With the turned brass of 0.10 the loaded round measured 0.530.I use a Forester outside neck trimmer.

Jim: Thanks for your answer. The guy I bought
my Holland from said it had tight chambers. I
still couldn't get 3 1/4" brass in, even using a
lathe. I expect shooting 3" in a 3 1/4" chamber
is like shooting 38 specials in a .357 (I hope).
How far down the case did you turn yours with
the Forester? Have you tried 3" cases? Thanks

The brass has beeen turned down just over 1/2 inch. No, I have used only 3.25 inch brass. When I 1st discovered a loaded round without turning the brass would not fit in the chamber, I borrowed some Cerrosafe(sp?). Plugged both barrels just ahead of the chambers using fiber wads. Melted the cerrosafe and carefully poured in to one chamber just to the top of the chamber. Removed it and took measurements then repeated in the other chamber. The barrels were separated from the action to make the process easier. Wear thich work gloves and wear safety glasses just in case.

Jim: I really appreciate all the info. Two more
questions: have you chronographed your load, and
what primers do you use?
Thanks Jim