Do any of you have opinions about the Beretta 455? I know very little about double rifles, but this one piqued my curiosity. It seems to be a lot of gun for the money.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...8_ber455eell_dun.jsp

Please give me a run-down of the positives and negatives. Thanks.

Most will tell you that this rifle is unsuitable since it is chambered in 416 Rigby and not a traditional rimmed cartridge.

If the rifle were in 470, asking price would be about $50k, I think.

If the rifle functions as a rimless than I would consider it, but I'd need to try it first.

I'm not a hide bound traditionalist regarding rimmed vs rimmed cartridges though. My two double rifles are both in rimless - and belted - cartridges and both function just fine. The one I have with the most rounds through it is at ~800 without ANY issues.

Hope this helps.

JPK

I was told by a knowledgeable dealer that these are made for Beretta by A&S.

I believe Spring has one in .470. He posted a picture on the "Pictures of Your Rifles" thread on the African board.

When they first came out they were selling (start price) at about 25K. I thought they were overweight for the caliber, but you'd have to handle it (obviously). Probably a fair price.

I see it is "supposedly" 12+ lbs. I doubt Cabelas has an accurate scale, but it is probably close. The extranneous "problem" as I see it is that most doubles are all made with the same external barrel profile so the 416 will weigh more than a 470, etc.

Depends on how you feel about 12 lbs. I would guess. But they are a thing of beauty,

No doubt about it, A&S make a well appointed rifle. Chumper Lump barrels, beautiful extended tang strap, Claw mounts, and great looking wood.

I'm not excited about the chambering, but not for usual traditionalist reasons. The double rifle action by it design isn't the world's strongest.
Double rifles were designed to deliver two large caliber bullets at modest pressure and velocity, with ease of extraction/ejection in tropical heat.

I wouldn't call the 416 Rigby a low pressure round. It's a good round. Lots of great, long, .416 bullets that penetrate well, to choose from. The round has a great history in Africa. Harry Selby carried a magazine rifle chambered in .416 Rigby his entire career.

I would say that 12 pounds is about right for the chambering. I promise you will still know when you touch one off!

I assumed - maybe incorrectly - that the 12lbs 4oz was the weight of the rifle including the scope. That would make the rifle weight about 11lbs or so. More in line with what I've seen other 455's listed at weight wise. I would want a lighter rifle, but thats not a real heavy weight.

BTW, I've got an A&S 375H&H sidelock double rifle and it is very well made. (Also reasonably light at 8lbs 10oz.) I've handled an A&S 470 and it too was a very nice rifle.

Will, the ones that I've seen in the $25k range were the rifles without the extensive engraving, just a border line with the center of the locks blank.

The 416 isn't a very high pressure cartridge for a bolt, a lot lower than most. It isn't all that high compared to some traditional NE cartridges either. Kynamco list the 450NE 3 1/4" at 17 tons/inch while they list the 416 Rigby at 18 tons/inch. A hell of a lot lower than, say, my 458wm that has 800 or so rounds through it with NO ISSUES!

JPK

Forrest.....I would ask that you kindly quit showing links to beautiful rifles.....the last time you did it, I had to buy that 333 Jeffery...which I now have . That being said, the Berretta is a beautiful fireatm. I looked real close at a 425 WR double at the Dallas show...made in 1928 by WR. That thing still functioned perfectly, and, obviously, has no rim. While I agree that the Rigby in a double is not "traditional", I think it's a great caliber for a double. I'm thinking 500/416 for a new double...just because of the 416 bullets and the fact that I can load it to any level I need to.
Buy it!!! I need to know you're spending some $$$$ too!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

You might wind up slowing down the loads anyway, depending on how it will regulate. Then even less pressure.

WTH, have them send it down to your local Cabelas and see what it is like.

Looking at my QuickLoad it says the max PSI for the 470 is 39,160. The 416 Rigby max PSI is listed at 47,137.

This one is interesting to me for a few reasons:

Although a 416 Rigby is not traditional double gun round, it is pretty sensible. A 450 grain solid (if regulates) will penetrate through just about two of anything. I already load for a 416 Rigby, so it would keep my life simple in that regard. It's probably regulated for 400 or 410 grain loads at 2350 or so. If it would regulate with 450s at 2250, that would be ideal for me.

One of my issues is that most double rifles aren't very flexible in their usage. This one would be relatively flat shooting and being scoped, would be a lot easier for me to use beyond 75 yards or so. I could take this rifle and a light rifle and not be handicapped in almost any situation.

12-1/4 lbs scoped would be the upper limit of what I would want to carry. If the rifle is 12 lbs + without the scope, then it's a moot point. It would be just too heavy for me.

quote:

One of my issues is that most double rifles aren't very flexible in their usage.

I'll let NE450No2 chime in on this one because he kills anything that walks, slithers, hops, burbs and farts with his 9.3 Chapuis - and as he has posted, has killed everything from rabbits to elephants with that gun.

Forrest:

After taking a closer look at the gun, the game scene looks like it was engraved with a technique known as bulino. It used literally 100s of thousands of tiny dots to create the images seen on the metal.

When I was researching engravers for my .577 Searcy project, I was leaning toward having the animals done in the bulino style. Not knowing anything about bulino other than I liked the way it looked, I spoke with two engravers who told me the following, paraphrased, points.

Over time, bulino engraved pieces can fade due to a number of external factors, the main one being "wear" by the owner. Carrying it in the field, cleaning it, etc., etc. can cause the "fading" to come quicker.

Also, the engravers told me, some metals hold bulino engraving better than others. Also, the technique of the engraver can be a factor - the deeper the "hole" the longer it will hold up to wear.

What does all this mean? If this gun is going to be a work horse and not a safe queen, if you plan on humping it around often, there is a potential for the engraving to wear off over time.

How long? Beats the heck out of me as I'm not an expert, but I did want to share this information that was passed on to me.

Now, this may be complete BS to other engravers or experts out there, but this is what was shared to me. After hearing this I decided against bulino for my engraving job.

The gun in question looks awesome and the amount you probably will use it will have little effect on the engraving in your life time.

Just passing on what I was told.

Best of luck with your decision!

Rusty,

Lets put it in perspective:

Your 450/400NE 3 1/4" produces 16.5 tons/inch according to Kynoch, and throws a 400gr bullet at 2150fps again according to Kynoch.

The 416 Rigby produced 18tons, and throws a 410gr bullet at 2300fps but at 18tons. Not a hell of a lot of difference in pressure, though enough to note, but a hell of a lot of difference in performance.

Like I aid, if the rifle works, it would be a nice rifle.

JPK

JPK,
Actually my A. Hollis and Son is chambered in 450/400 3 inch. It is a 55 cord rifle, meaning that, the regulated velocity is 400 grain bullet at 1950 FPS.

All of the old Kynoch pressures were derived from bolt thrust-copper crusher barrels.

Forrest,
When in Reno the guy from the Beretta store in Dallas said that the replacement cost of the 455 (not the EELL) was now about $60,000. This one you've found looks to be a very good deal.
By the way, it was great meeting you at the show. I wish I could have stayed at the custom gun thing longer. I was also amazed to learn that you had hunted with my next PH. You do get around!
Keep in touch.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
JPK,
Actually my A. Hollis and Son is chambered in 450/400 3 inch. It is a 55 cord rifle, meaning that, the regulated velocity is 400 grain bullet at 1950 FPS.

All of the old Kynoch pressures were derived from bolt thrust-copper crusher barrels.

OOPS, I thought you had the 450/400 3 1/4", my bad.

Kynamco doesn't list the 3" tropical load, only the full load at 16 tons and performance at 2125fps, but out of 30" barrels - so maybe 2050fps out of a real rifle for the full house load. Again, the 450 NE 3 1/4" is at 17 tons and the 416 Rigby at 18 tons.

JPK

When my rifle was made Kynamco wasn't in business.

Yea, and they weren't in business when the 416 Rigby made it debut either. And neither were Wolfgang Rommey, Superior Ammo or Hornaday, other sources of loaded ammo for the 450/400 3". But Kynamco still test pressure the old fashion way, which is how DR pressure ought to be tested, as well as to CIP standards, or so I have been told.

JPK

Cabelas says this Beretta double rifle weighs 11 lbs without the scope and 12 lb 4oz with the scope. That sounded tolerable to me.

I called Cabela's....they said they'd put your name on it .

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Bottom line:

Great looking double with all the bells and whistles.