We have a saying:
The art is not to have the knowlegde, but to know who has.
So here I am and here is my problem / guestion.
I have a Merkel in 470NE and a Krieghoff in 375HH.
The stock on the Merkel is a very nice piece of wood, but it is far to much bent for me. ( drop at comb and hill). I saw that when I bought it, but you know how it is. The offer was just too good.
It works nice on the range, because then I have the time to ajust. But when the going get tuff, I aim, fire and shots too low. Result, somebody is running without frontlegs as if that is possible.
The Krieghoff has a much straigther stock and it fits me just fine. It is just aim and fire.
I will not modify the original stock on the Merkel, that will ruin the guns value and I will not custom make a stock for it. I think that will be too expencive compared to let the gun "go" and buy a Krieghoff 470NE.
SO, what I need is an ordinary stock for the Merkel, which I can modify for my liking. That means, put a knife and saw into it without crying.
Where do I get a stock like this?
Is there a market for stocks out there,or do I have to go to Merkel and see what they got?.

quote:

Originally posted by Jken:
We have a saying:
The art is not to have the knowlegde, but to know who has.
So here I am and here is my problem / guestion.
I have a Merkel in 470NE and a Krieghoff in 375HH.
The stock on the Merkel is a very nice piece of wood, but it is far to much bent for me. ( drop at comb and hill). I saw that when I bought it, but you know how it is. The offer was just too good.
It works nice on the range, because then I have the time to ajust. But when the going get tuff, I aim, fire and shots too low. Result, somebody is running without frontlegs as if that is possible.
The Krieghoff has a much straigther stock and it fits me just fine. It is just aim and fire.
I will not modify the original stock on the Merkel, that will ruin the guns value and I will not custom make a stock for it. I think that will be too expencive compared to let the gun "go" and buy a Krieghoff 470NE.
SO, what I need is an ordinary stock for the Merkel, which I can modify for my liking. That means, put a knife and saw into it without crying.
Where do I get a stock like this?
Is there a market for stocks out there,or do I have to go to Merkel and see what they got?.

I think I would disagree with the notion that altering the stock would decrease the value of the rifle. The caveat being you dont cut the stock. Can the stalk be heated and straightened? I know I was speaking to a gentleman with Chapuis and they said they could bend stocks to fit. I would be surprised that Merkel could not do the same.

Good luck sir.

I would think it would be much easier and alot less money to alter the height of the sights. By lowering the front sight it should raise the point of impact. You could also lower the rear sight to solve it as well. Changing out the height of sights on Merkel rifles is an easy chore for a good gunsmith. You can also add some custom options if you wished, such as fiber optic or polished silver, etc. Good luck.

I owned and hunted with a Merkel in 500NE for several years. The drop at the heel and comb fit me like a glove. In fact, it's the only off the shelf double that has fit me as most of them have a too high comb for my particular build.

However, my Merkel also shot low so I'm not sure that is the real issue with your gun. There are a couple of ways to rectify this. You could send it to JJ at Champlain Arms and have him install a shorter front sight. I always intended to do that with mine but just never got around to it. So in order to shoot to the proper elevation, I simply placed the top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight instead of pulling it all the way down into the V.

You might give that a try first as you may very well have a stock that doesn't fit you, but I'm thinking that isn't why the gun is shooting low.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I owned and hunted with a Merkel in 500NE for several years.
However, my Merkel also shot low so I'm not sure that is the real issue with your gun. There are a couple of ways to rectify this. You could send it to JJ at Champlain Arms and have him install a shorter front sight. I always intended to do that with mine but just never got around to it. So in order to shoot to the proper elevation, I simply placed the top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight instead of pulling it all the way down into the V.

.

Todd I read someplace else where you said your rear sight was a wide "V" and that surprised me!

Did the sights on your 500NE Merkel come from the factory with a wide "V" back sight, or was it modified? I have never seen a Merkel within the first two grades with a factory wide "V" rear sight.

I have two Merkel double rifles and like every other one I've seen it they both have the partridge front sight, and a back sight with a flat top, and a square slot designed to be used as most pistol sights are used by placing the top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight with equal amounts of light on either side of the front sight when aiming. Modifying the back sight to a wide "V" requires lowering the front sight as well so it can be placed deep in the "V" and still has the same POI on the target.

Like you, I much prefer the Wide "V" and a bead front with a white Wart hog insert that is just high enough so it can be placed in the bottom of the "V".

Both my Merkels sighted like a pistol strike dead on the top of the front sight at the distance stamped on the back sight, of the 9.3X74R 140E-1 (100 mtrs) and the 470NE 140-2(50 mtrs on the standing rear, and 100 mtrs on the flip-up) I think your 500 was a 140-2.1 so may have the factory wide "V".

It seems though, since your rifle shot on target with the front sight place level with the top of wide "V" I would think it was modified from its original shape!

Fill me in!
........................................................................

Have you been fitted for a stock before?

Also, consider finding a good stockmaker that can steam the stock you have and bend it to fit your body profile.

Jken,
Can you tell me how many millimetres the heal is from the "line of sight"?
I am interested to know if it is around 70mm.
Regards.

Mac, no the stock nor sights were ever modified. I purchased it new still wrapped in the wax paper. It did come with a wide "V" and an inverted high vis yellow triangle pointing up. Very good sights and that rifle fit me like a glove for sure.

Lionhunter has it now but I don't think he has had a chance to shoot it but once or twice. I hope it works for him as well as it did for me.

You might have to zoom in a bit to see them clearly but here is a picture of the sights:

I really like that yellow triangle, and the shape of the wide "V" as well! I think I'll modify mine the same way, and shorten the front sight blade, and checker everything lower than the top of the 3 16th inch of the lowered blade with a jeweler's file and polish the top 3 16ths.

Thanks for the pictures! If I had known you were going to trade the 500NE in I might have tried to buy it from you and sell my 470NE Merkel!

Chris at Heym had a B. Searcy 500NE at the show, and I never got around to asking him what he wanted for it. I may give him a call Monday because that rifle fit my like a glove!

Jken, it is not at all out of the ordinary among shotgunners to have a stock bent to fit. Griffin & Howe does it on a regular basis, steaming the wrist, adjusting in a vise, then allowing to cool, dry, and then re-oil. Shotgun guys tend to be very touchy about stock fit and sight picture. We should be the same with double rifles, because the method of aiming is much closer to a shotgun than your typical rifle.

The stock can probably be bent - just need to find an experienced gunmaker.

Mac
I sent a PM to you.

I wouldn't bend that stock until you've worked with the sights first. With a little work, those sights can be made to work for you.

As a general rule, all modern Merkel double rifles have 2 5/8" drop at heel, which is perfect for 85-90 of all adult males. Cast is normally the part that may need adjusting by bending the stock, which can easily be done. But bending a stock up or down is risky business and is never guaranteed by a gun stock smith.

Work on the sights, and you'll have a gun that shoots true for you. I have adjusted the sights on every double rifle I've ever owned.

Thanks to you all.
As always, this is the place to go.

quote:

Shotgun guys tend to be very touchy about stock fit and sight picture.

I am proberly just that the from many years of ducks and doves.

Ozhunter. There is 77 mm from heal to sightline and 45 mm from comb to sightline. The Krieghoff has 47 mm at both heal and comb.

I was told that bending a stock was useless since there was little to gain from it. I will take a closer look at it by the people who know the game, and do a little checking.

I must edmit, the sights have not been on my mind at all, but it sounds logic to take a closer look at them too.

I will use the saw and knife on the firewood instead.

quote:

Originally posted by mdstewart:
I wouldn't bend that stock until you've worked with the sights first. With a little work, those sights can be made to work for you.

As a general rule, all modern Merkel double rifles have 2 5/8" drop at heel, which is perfect for 85-90 of all adult males. Cast is normally the part that may need adjusting by bending the stock, which can easily be done. But bending a stock up or down is risky business and is never guaranteed by a gun stock smith.

Work on the sights, and you'll have a gun that shoots true for you. I have adjusted the sights on every double rifle I've ever owned.

Please look into the adjusting the sights first. A really easy fix. If the sights are lined up when you mount the rifle, the stock isn't the problem causing it to shoot low. It's the sights themselves.

quote:

I know I was speaking to a gentleman with Chapuis and they said they could bend stocks to fit. I would be surprised that Merkel could not do the same.

If Chapuis would straighten the stock and bend it, it will be a wonderful thing.

I do own one it shoots great but I hate the way it was stoked. too much drop at the heal. My Sabattis feels and mounts way much nicer and to the point. I know I would much prefer a straighter stock.

Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best

quote:

Originally posted by Jken:

Ozhunter. There is 77 mm from heal to sightline and 45 mm from comb to sightline. The Krieghoff has 47 mm at both heal and comb.

Jken,
Is this true line of sight (bead to bottom of v)? If so the is quite a bit as most seem to be around 65 to 70mm.
My old Merkel 470 was low but I found it fine as my stance is more upright. Some people tend to tilt their face down onto the stock thus lifting the cheek and creating a gap between stock and cheek.

Ozhunter.
There is not much to the bottom of the V, since this Merkel has a small V and not an open express sight. I have modified it a little, but it is still a small V.
When in a hurry, I am the tilt face down to the stock, guy. That gives me a fixed face or to be exact a fixed eye/sightline. No ajusting, just musclememory.
I guess a heavy caliber / recoil gun is not to put the face onto, but I kinda like it.

We all have our way in doing things, said the drunkman. He drank while the others were figthing.