Gentlemen;

I have been interested in DRs for quite a while, at first fell in love with a WR 470, but reality makes me consider other makers and I am now in the postiion to make a decision and a purchase.

Here is a list of needs/wants::

-American Game primarily
-Caliber 400-450-470(I use a Ruger 1 in 416 Rigby now for most everything)
-Would not prefer a european caliber
-Plan an African hunt for PG (gotta have a buffalo as well)
-Traditional English style wood and express sights (no fiber optics)
-No intention of mounting a scope
-Intend to reload most/all of the ammunition
-Left-handed

To date I have looked at Merkel, Heym, SIACE and Searcy and a few used English guns (too pricey though)

Price Range $10k (maybe $12k)

Ejectors would be nice, but in my price range I see that extractors are the norm.

Advice?

God Bless

Do you mean you would prefer not to buy a metric cartridge as everything you mentioned including the 416 are European.

Here is a couple to think about that are ready to ship. Although nothing meets your requirements 100%.

Demas 470, but has a right handed cheekpiece and cast for a right handed shooter.

Chapuis 9.3x74R, negatives for you --- has a fiber optic rear sight, and a metric cartridge. Positives-- no cheekpiece, stock has no cast. I have a couple of Chapuis I purchased when the dollar was stronger so the price on these are $4365, new guns from Chapuis will be $4700.

You can see pictures and descriptions here
www.kebcollc.com click on firearms and then on rifles.

Kebco;

Thanks for the info-yes, European meaning metric (English is considered European these days?), maybe "continental" would be accurate.

Andrew

Hello,
I palyed around for years pondering the same questions, Finally settled on a Krieghoff Classic in 470 NE. The Engineer in me liked the cocking mechanism and modern steels. The romantic likes the classic caliber and almost english lines. The economist in me liked the moderate price $10 K - $15 K depending on options, in 2005 Dollars. The Demas and Chapius also are noteworthy and interesting.
nitro450exp

Keep in mind that Merkel will be offering ejectors on their big bores in mid summe. It would give you ejectors and not break your budget.

Andrew

Don't be too quick to discount the continental calibers. One of the calibers that would suit your hunting needs to a "T" is the 9.3x74. Is is a ballistic cousin to the 375 and is ideally suited for a double rifle. The other caliber that came to mind was the 450/400.

In your price range you are looking at Chapuis, Merkel, Krieghoff and perhaps the Blaser S2. If you are looking for a 9.3 x 74, the Heym 88B is within your price range. Calibers over 9.3 will be more cost wise for any of these makers.



Take a look at the features offered - ejectors, are the safeties automatic or non auto, intercepting sears, etc. You may find a feature a "must have" only to discover it is not available or available only as a highly priced option.

If you get the chance, you may want to handle a few to see what feels right for you. Balance is important. Fit is very important on a double rifle, more so than on a single barrel rifle.

Best of luck!

As was mentioned earlier, the 9.3 will be less expensive, but make sure your guide will let you hunt cape buff with it as the min cals for DG in each country vary... .366 (9.3) or .375 often being the minimum. Also, opinions vary, but many don't consider the 9.3 sufficiently powerful for cape buff. I'm sure you will hear arguments from both camps.

I have, at one time or another, owned a CHapuis, merkel, and a heym 470. There are different aspects of each gun that I like and dislike, with the heym being my favorite (that's biased because it's also the one I currently own). To me the heym feels better balanced, lighter weight (which may or may not be a good thing according to your perspective), and all around better feeling in my hands. That said, a new Heym will generally cost more than a new Merkel or Chapuis (assuming you buy the basic packages).

Try and handle one of each before making a decision. You'll also want to test the different cals to insure that you can handle the recoil etc.

You cannot go wrong with a double rifle in 9,3x74R.

It is truely a best buy. I have a Chapuis and have taken everythung from beaver to black bear to cape buffalo, all sorts of plains game from Zim from klipspringer to giraffe, and an elephant as well.

If you must have a calibre larger than the 9,3 then a 450/400 would be my second recommendation to you.

I have a British 450/400 3 1/4" that I have taken deer, wild pigs, caribou, black bear, african plains game, cape buff, bull elephant and lion with.

I recently shot one of the new Heym 450/400 3" doubles. It was very nice.

A little outside your stated budget, but worth a look, as it is a double that would work for you forever.

Maddenwh;

I would prefer an "english" caliber, although the 9.3 probably would do just fine for most everything else I intend to hunt.

I handle recoil quite well-my 416 and 400 grn loads at 2450 are stiff, but I have no major problem with them out of a Ruger #1. The 450/400 & 450 NE are in the same ball park but with different dynamics, while the 470 is a step up in recoil, then again it would be about a 10 lb rifle....

Being left-handed is my biggest concern. As a serious HP competitor, I know how signicant repeatability of position is on recoil dynamics and POI, I would not want a right-handed rifle that would not be regualted when firing left-handed-any insight inot this possibility?

God Bless

I have a Searcy field grade .470 available that is left-handed and well within your budget. I sent you a p.m. with details.

quote:

Originally posted by Andrew cempa:
Maddenwh;

I would prefer an "english" caliber, although the 9.3 probably would do just fine for most everything else I intend to hunt.

I handle recoil quite well-my 416 and 400 grn loads at 2450 are stiff, but I have no major problem with them out of a Ruger #1. The 450/400 & 450 NE are in the same ball park but with different dynamics, while the 470 is a step up in recoil, then again it would be about a 10 lb rifle....

Being left-handed is my biggest concern. As a serious HP competitor, I know how signicant repeatability of position is on recoil dynamics and POI, I would not want a right-handed rifle that would not be regualted when firing left-handed-any insight inot this possibility?

God Bless

A 450/400 probably won't recoil as much as your 416 in your ruger. A 470 and a 450 are practically identical in terms of ballistics and felt recoil (assuming similar guns). In my opinion a 470 would be your best option if you don't mind recoil. It's really more of a big push if the rifle fits. When I decided between the 470 and 450/400, I came to the conclusion that I would only be using my double on DG and that I needed as much stopping/killing power as I could handle. That said, I've always wanted a 450/400... certainly my next buy.

Like it's been mentioned earlier, shooting a double left handed shouldn't present any problems even if there is a right-handed cheek piece (might be aesthetically akward). Hope your search ends well.

Andrew,
My two doubles (I'm a lefty) are both "right-handed." The 500/450 has a cheekpiece and negligible cast. The 350 No. 2 suffered a broken stock and the replacement has no cast. Both of them come up readily and shoot to point of aim with the appropriate handloads.

Don't know if you are slim enough to use a rifle with no cast. If you must have cast, a decent gunsmith can easily (cheaply) bend a stock (assuming no through bolt) as needed.

I've never even thought of having a left-handed double with top lever moving left and triggers reversed. But I have had my right handed triggers heated and turned slightly to accommodate my left trigger finger.

The 450/400 is flavor of the month here, but I'd look at a 375 flanged. It would satisfy the legal requirements anywhere and has a large number of heads in solid and soft to choose from, giving you lots of joy in trying to find those that regulate best...

Regards, Tim

I am a big Searcy fan and really like the Searcy Classic in 450-400-3", that is the gun I presently have and it shoots 1" at 75 yards with irons and scope. It has scope mounts but I seldom use a scope on a double as that is akin to child molestation IMHO...

I don't like ejectors, I like extractors as the gun breaks open with the weight of the barrels and that speeds things up for me..

Lots of good English guns out there, but for hunting I will stay with Searcy as it can be repaired, they shoot better than any gun on the market, and if lost they can be replaced, and are easy to insure for trips.

Thanks to all that replied-I have decided to hold off a little longer and place an order for a bespoke rifle from ....

I figure that if I am going to buy one DR, I may as well have it made just for me and invest perhaps a little (!) more.

I know the resale of a LH "anything" is risky, but unless I become completely unable, it will be used until I die and then given to my son, he is a right handed type, but that would be his "problem".

God Bless!

Find a Willam Douglass best double for the money!

Ed

505ED is right get a William Douglass I am left handed and very happy with mine next I would look at is Heym and Merkel

Take a look at the Heym if you can stretch for it. A great gun with some super features. My dealer told me that Merkel doubles are now on hand in 470 and 500 with ejectors. Upcharge for the ejectors is $500.

I doubt you could go wrong with a Merkel in 470NE.

quote:

Take a look at the Heym if you can stretch for it. A great gun with some super features

I agree. In addition, the Heym can be ordered with options such as an ejector/extractor selector and can be ordered to fit your physical specifications. Really a well made, well balanced rifle.

Geronimo