Went to ran ge today with several different
loads for 450 NE. R 19 powder with 480 Woodliegh solid. Best four shot groupat 50 yards rested was Av FPS of 2104 FPS. Measuement of group using box metrhod and Ooutside of holes was 1 7/8" x 1 1/2" ( using center of hole method was 1 1/16" x 1 1/2". Shot to point of aim & even better 350 hornadys shoot to same point of aim. Rifle has had 65 rounds through it and is rock solid. Triggers are good and I shot 14 full loads today without discomfort from a rest so weight of rifle is good although I am generally not recoil shy. Best gun buy I have ever made!

Well done.

Did you crono the 350 Hornadys?

Congrats again.

2100fps (at what yardage?) is sufficient for elephants and anything else, and if it is the muzzle velocity it is right in line with actual field performance from vintage 450NE 3 1/4" rifles.

Might want to try the 450 North Fork flat nose solids. The should shoot very close to the 480's using the same powder charge. A little tweeking may be required to get them all shooting to the same poi.

The 450 NF FN's will give you much more penetration than the 480ge Woodleighs. I like the NF's for the second and subsequent shots on eles.

For buff, might want to look into the 450gr North Fork cup points.

JPK

I now have some other loads for you to try.

Nitro for Black.

Use a 300gr HP, a 405gr Remington bullet, or any lead bullet from 300 to 400 grains.

Start with 48gr of IMR 4198. You must use filler, zand it must be compressed, around 10 to 12 grains would be my gurss, I use 15 grains in my 450 No2.

You should fine a load that shoots to the sights, and regulates at 50 yards in your gun somewhere between 48 and 52 gr if IMR 4198.

Velocity fo these loads should be around 1750 to 1950 fps, depending on the bullet and the exact powder charge.
These loads are fun to shoot [low recoil] and are also good for deer and pigs.

They are easy on the rifle as well.

NE 450 No2,

Do you think that a similar reduced velocity 350gr load would work in my rifle?

If so, do you have a recomendation for a load, or at least for a velocity?

Recall, my Thys is 458wm.

JPK

JPK

Remind me again of the loads that regulate in you 458 double and I will figure a Nitro for Black load for you.

Nitro for Black loads hit to the sights at 50 yards and regulatw well in my 450/400, and my 450No2 as well.

The 2104 fps chrono was at approx 10 feet from muzzle and the 2104 fps is an average of four rounds fired - two from each barrel.

I have not chronoed the 350 FP's yet but most likely will next week. I will post results. DRs are lots of fun to figure out & to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
JPK

Remind me again of the loads that regulate in you 458 double and I will figure a Nitro for Black load for you.

Nitro for Black loads hit to the sights at 50 yards and regulatw well in my 450/400, and my 450No2 as well.

Thanks NE 450 No2!

Without reference to my notes, my recolection is that the 500 Woodleigh solids regulate at 2145fps corrected to the muzzles with 72.5 grains of AA2230. The softs take just a bit more powder, but cannot recall offhand.

450 North Fork fn solids also shoot to regulation with 72.5 grains of AA2230, again as I recall, and at 2220fps corrected to the muzzles. (The old style shot best with H4198 but the new style won't shoot worth a darn with that powder, which is too bad since it was a cleaner burning powder.)

My 350 Woodleigh and Hornaday loads are with IMR 3031 and I don't recall the load offhand. Next opportunity, I will look for an AA2230 load for the 350's, but when I first got my rifle IMR 3031 was what JJ recommended for the 500's. It worked, but velocity was low at 2050fps, and it was really, really temp sensative, so I abondoned IMR 3031 for elephant and buff loads.

Do you need the IMR data? Or do I need to find the AA2230 load for the 350's first?

Thanks again!

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by clayman216:
The 2104 fps chrono was at approx 10 feet from muzzle and the 2104 fps is an average of four rounds fired - two from each barrel.

I have not chronoed the 350 FP's yet but most likely will next week. I will post results. DRs are lots of fun to figure out & to shoot.

IIRC, when I was looking for data to correct chrono'd velocity to the muzzle, the chrono and other data showed a loss of about 1fps/ft for Woodleigh 500's at ~2135 at 10'. I moved the chrono back to 15', then up to 10', then to 20' to record the deltas. I would think that the 480's would be about the same making your MV ~2115fps, which is right in line with reported MV from vintage guns, maybe a tad higher than average.

Good medicine for anything!

JPK

JPK : Thanbk you - good information to know.

JPK

With 300 to 400 gr bullets I would start with 45 gr of IMR 4198, and work up.

I do not think you will need a filler in the 458, but if you experience any hang fires then use dacron poly compressed.

These loads should start out around 1900fps or so.
You might have to go up or down a few grains to get them to the proper regulation, and to hit to the sights.

Let me know how they shoot.

You could also start out with 56gr of IMR 3031 with those same bullets since you might have some of that on hand.

NE 450 No2,

Thanks. I will give it a go and report back. Might be awhile until I have the opportunity though, but will get to it this spring.

JPK

Clayman (or others that have an opinion),

What is your opinion of the Sabatti's in .450? I notice that Cabelas has a number of them listed on their website now.

I like my 450 NE very much. It is a solid gun and looks good as well. Fit & finish are good and better than some higher priced rifles. I found regulation of barrels to be very good.
450 NE makes sense in that there are many choices for bullets so finding a match for your rifle should be fairly easy. They regulate them with Kynoch ammo and I am quite sure that is a Woodliegh bullett && that is what worked best in my rifle. I purchased mine at SCI in Reno from Cabellas.

Interesting that they now use Hornady ammo to regulate with.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Interesting that they now use Hornady ammo to regulate with.

A lot cheaper? The Nebraska connection?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Interesting that they now use Hornady ammo to regulate with.

A lot cheaper? The Nebraska connection?

Nebraska??? I thought you're in Kansas?

They made have changed ammo type for regulation. Mine regulation target was shot with Kynoch.

I called on all of the 450s that cabelas had listed YESTERDAY and they were all sold. They did tell me about one in Idaho and NOT on the gun room list. I have it on hold and am driving there tomorrow. I hope its nice!

P.S. All of the new targets showed regulation with hornady DGX loads.

JCS,

This is a small world...

I just got back from Cabelas in Post Falls. I went out there because I have a 450 on hold in Lacy and wanted to look at their 45-70 in order to decide whether or not I'm going to drive all the way to Lacy.

While I was there I told them why I was looking at the rifle, and they told me they had a 450 on hold they could show me to save me the trip. Anyway, I really liked YOUR rifle! I'm no expert on DR's, but I thought it looked very well made, and was surprised how nice the rifle was. I wasn't expecting that much gun for the price.

Well, I came back home to post some quesions to the DR experts and saw this post.

Let me know what you think after you see it.

So JCS271 what's the word on your road trip to check out the What did you think of it?

They were holding one at Cabelas in Maine for me until Sat. Had to pass. Don't know if it is still available.
Rick

I liked the rifle from the moment I held it, balance was great, fit/finish was spot on. So knowing that the 450NE was a powerful but not abusive cartridge, I BOUGHT IT!

I love this rifle, and after using some cabelas card points and even having a $50 off coupon, I was out the door for $4800. Many have speculated that these Sabattis are "undervalued". I often wonder if many of the others are actually quite "overvalued".

Congrats on your new rifle. I enjoy mine very much. It is super regulated and shoots sooo many
loads well. I too was hisitant at first but like you when I saw it and handled it it was obvious that it was well made. Enjoy !

Are going to get to see pictures of your rifles?

Yes we need pics of guns and targets.I am glad yours is shooting well. I was concerned because all the "regulation" targets I have seen were stacked on top of each outher about 2 in vertical spreador more.
Bill

Just a update Cabellas FortWorth had a 450 and a 45-70 in stock today at about 2:30. The 450 had a pretty nice piece of wood.
Bill

Bill,

I'm not sure how to post pictures here, but my factory regluation target, with Hornady DGX, is pretty much side by side, about and inch apart at 50 meters, so about 54-55 yards.

The right barrel shot slightly higher than the left.

If you can email pictures, send them to me and I will be glad to post them for you. rkmojo@aol.com

They had a 45/70 in stock at Cabela's Wheeling as of yesterday. I didn't look to closely at it, and didn't get to ask if they had any Big Ones.

PICTURES MAN PICTURES!

Rusty:

I tried to figure out how to do this on my own, but I better accept your offer. Otherwise I'm afraid these pictures will never be posted...

Thank you very much!

Everybody:

The first picture shows the regulation target with the final group circled. The boxes of NF bullets just happened to be sitting on the same table at the time I took the pictures, they are simply paper weights (so far).

The second picture is the bottom of the target showing the rifle was regulated with 480 grain Hornady DGX ammo.

The third shows outside measurement of the final two shot group.

I hope to find a load that regulates with 450 grain North Fork softs and solids. With some luck I'll be able to post some pictures within the next couple of weeks. That will give me a chance to shot a proper group of three per barrel.

I will post the target pictures you sent me later today. Sorry, I didn't get it done Monday, I was out of town.

Here are the pictures that Austringer sent me. Sorry about the delay. Hope I got all the captions right.

quote:

The first picture shows the regulation target with the final group circled. The boxes of NF bullets just happened to be sitting on the same table at the time I took the pictures, they are simply paper weights (so far).

quote:

The second picture is the bottom of the target showing the rifle was regulated with 480 grain Hornady DGX ammo.

quote:

The third shows outside measurement of the final two shot group.

Nice shootin'

How about a few pictures of the double?

Rusty:

Thank you very much! I'll do my best to learn how to post pictures myself, especially since I will be posting quite a few in the near future.

CCM:

Bill Cooley was wondering about the factory regulation target, that's what the pictures are of. I can only hope I manage to work up a load that shoots that well. I hope I'm not biting off more than I can chew. I would like to work up a load with 450 grain North Fork bullets, but I have no experience loading for, or shooting, double rifle.

Based on Clayman's advice I'm following the guidance I received from "Shooting the British Double Rifle." According to that book special consideration must be given when firing a double off of a rest.

I'm quite familiar with that concept since I've been a long time fan of spring powered air rifles, and in order to get the most from your rifle they must be able to recoil freely as well. That said, the shooting postions must be adjusted for the double in order to avoid time consuming emergency room visits...

I will post picture of my targets once I work up a load that regulates well.

I'll post pictures of the rifle as soon as I can muddle my way through the directions I found.