I am looking into getting my first double rifle and trying to do it on a budget, I know double rifles and budgets don't exactly go together. I have been looking at 2 different guns and have a few questions hopefully you guys can help with.

1. Sabatti vs Chapuis

2. 450/400 vs 9.3x74 - Pros and cons on these calibers?

3. Extractors vs Ejectors

4. Is there a market for these used double rifles? If I get either of these and later decide it isn't for me can I sell them for roughly what I got them for?

Thanks

There are far more informed and experienced double rifle owners than myself on this forum but I will offer my opinion.
I would choose the 450/400 over the 9.3x74 because I think it is a better choice for Dangerous Game and useful for plains game too. I have a 9.3 chapuis, a 450/400 chapuis, a 450 NE Sabatti, a 450NE Searcy, sold a 470 NE Merkel.

If I knew then what I know now, I would own 1 DR in 450/400.

In this soft market you will lose money on a new one. Buy used.
Ejectors are nice but if the price is right Extractors are good. I care less today about ejectors vs extractors than I did when I bought my first DR.

BTW, subsailors Kreighoff is a good buy and you will probably not lose money on it.

What is your budget ? & what game are you planning to hunt?

Butch is right about subsailors K-gun,that is a really nice rifle,if I did not have a Heym in that caliber already? I would have put an offer in on that gun.
I started my DR experience with a Chapuis in 9.3x74,I no longer have it,the 450-400 is a very useful caliber,it will almost do it all,I do not miss my 9.3.

Go with a 450/400 - legal and adequate for anything that walks.

I’ve had a Chapuis in both the 9.3 and the 450/400. Neither one had impressive accuracy (repeatable, but considerable separation at 50 yards), but both were dependable. Although JJ swears by them and says the barrels are tough as nails, they are paper thin in these 2 calibers. Maybe that’s fine - personally I don’t care for it. Parted ways with both.

Also had a Sabatti in 450/400. Nice feel and barrel weight, but terrible accuracy (groups and consistency). Turned out I had purchased a “Dremel-regulated” model - which Cabelas took back.

Since then I picked up a pawn-shop 450/400 Heym 88B PH. Just finished working up loads today with 400 grain North fork FPS. Most impressive - right,left touching holes at 50 yards, within an inch at 85 yards. Nice barrel weight, and after a few dozen rounds, smooth action. Not sure the previous owner had put more than 20 rounds through it.

If you’re patient, you can find what you want on the used market. The Sabatti importer at DSC (can’t remember if it was last year or this year) swears the new models are done right, and can probably be picked up for 1/2 - 2/3 what a good used Heym costs. How dependable are they, or how well do they hold value, don’t know.

As for ejectors vs extractors, go ejectors if you plan to actually hunt DG with it. Being able to quickly reload one or both barrels can be critical. Having to first extract the spent cartridge doesn’t help this.

. . . buy Dave’s (subsailor) rifle. Outstanding value.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . buy Dave’s (subsailor) rifle. Outstanding value.

I second this suggestion!

quote:

Originally posted by nhoro:
The Sabatti importer at DSC (can’t remember if it was last year or this year) swears the new models are done right, and can probably be picked up for 1/2 - 2/3 what a good used Heym costs. How dependable are they, or how well do they hold value, don’t know.

As for ejectors vs extractors, go ejectors if you plan to actually hunt DG with it. Being able to quickly reload one or both barrels can be critical. Having to first extract the spent cartridge doesn’t help this.

Couple of comments.

Anyone paying 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of a Heym, new or used, for a Sabatti is getting the ROYAL SCREW JOB. A more realistic deal would be 1/5 to 1/4
.


Ejectors vs extractors. "Having to first extract the spent cartridge" is a non factor in performing a quick reload. I posted a video on this some time back. Unfortunately, I uploaded it to Photobucket instead of youtube and since I'm not participating in the PhotoBucket extortion plan, that video may or may not be available for viewing these days. In any event, the discussion on that topic and link to the video is here. Sorry if the video no longer works. I'll try to find the raw footage and re-upload it to youtube if there is any interest.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...631094961#3631094961


Also, if you want to see an extractor gun in real action, I posted this video as well, taking a tuskless elephant in Zim with my extractor 500 NE Merkel. Unfortunately, you don't get to SEE the reload but you can hear how quickly the new rounds are introduced to the chamber and the action closed. If I can find a link to the first video that still works, I believe we determined the difference between my ability to reload ejectors and extractors to be about .2 seconds. It's just a matter of a little practice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzTm3PzBzIw

Todd,
You should be able to download a video as I have pix from PB and than move them to the chosen replacement picture hosting service.

AZhunter81,
Another approach would be to have Aaron Little make for you the DR of your chosen caliber to you specs.

+1 for the .40 caliber VS the .366 caliber for larger game.

Since I prefer American cartridges, I chose a Simson-Suhl .405 WCF DR and hand load it to match factory 450/400 velocities for .411 400 grain Woodies. Of course, the 300 grain loads at 2250 fps kill most critters too.

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Todd,
You should be able to download a video as I have pix from PB and than move them to the chosen replacement picture hosting service.

I've been searching for a way to pull that video down from PB since posting the above. I can see it in the thumbnail but it will not play. I did a little Google search on "PhotoBucket Video Issues" and came up with a couple of threads saying PB has discontinued video support. So I'm not sure how to recover it. If anyone with some insight on how to grab that video off of PB cares to educate me, I'll do my best to get it reposted. I'm not sure what hard drive I have the original on. It would take more time than I have interest in these days to track it down.

Todd,
If you have the patience to wade through all the junk ads on PB, select your library of pix and then on the right side of the screen there is information on downloading one or all of your pix.
The one-at-a-time has worked for me, but not the entire library at once.

That is all I know about PB, except that it is still painfully slow and cluttered with ads.
Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Azhunter81:
I am looking into getting my first double rifle and trying to do it on a budget, I know double rifles and budgets don't exactly go together. I have been looking at 2 different guns and have a few questions hopefully you guys can help with.

1. Sabatti vs Chapuis

2. 450/400 vs 9.3x74 - Pros and cons on these calibers?

3. Extractors vs Ejectors

4. Is there a market for these used double rifles? If I get either of these and later decide it isn't for me can I sell them for roughly what I got them for?

Thanks

With the above parameters
Of Chapuis and Sabbatti

First choice New or used Chapuis 450-400
Second:New or used Chapuis 9.3x74

In those calibers, If the budget allows my own 1st choice
Would be a new or used Heym

Subsailors Kreighoff cannot be beaten. Otherwise, I’d look for a used Merkel DR in your budget.

I just looked at Subsailor's rifle. Outstanding buy! If bought, you will definately get your money out of it should you decide to sell in the future. The same can't be said of the two you mention in your original post.
Cal

I just looked at Subsailor's rifle.

That's the one you want!

Subsailor's rifle just sold. Did you get it, AZ?
Cal

I have had a K-gun in 450/400 for several
years. Only double I have & love it. Shoots
great It likes Woodleigh, North Fork and Swift
A-frames equally. All regulate good at about
2,100 fps. I have gotten used to the push to
cock safety and like it. Can carry the gun
loaded and un-cocked very safe. You won't be
sorry for the money if you got this gun.
Good hunting and shooting

Tetonka
DRSS

Im not overly fond of Chapuis or Sabatti, I prefer a used English rifle or a Searcy..but I suspect the Cahpuis is the best of the two by a good deal.

I, personally would opt for the 450-400-3" and a 4.25 is fine for DG and Africa.., but depends on what you intend to shoot..If your plinking and just having fun with doubles Id go with the less expensive 9.3x72, its cheaper to shoot and nicer to the shoulder...I did most of my DG hunting with a 450-400 tried a 470 and a 450-3.25", like them both, but went with the 450-400 in the end.