Barrels? Sure; they will always be soft. Frames? Most of the time, yes, unless one is case hardened very hard. Modern rifles made from alloy steel will be soft enough to engrave with carbide tools, even the case hardened ones, which have very shallow cases. Some are nickel plated (like Krieghoffs), and if you engrave through that, you will expose bare steel, which has some consequences of its own. I have talked this over before with the engraver I use, Jim Downing. He uses a Gravermeister; if you are using hand held carbon steel tools, you might find some frames to be difficult to cut. Talk to your engraver and ask, he can test the surface hardness on your rifle and determine if he can cut it.
Posts: 17376 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009
Thanks dcpd. I want to engrave on a Heym 88B which has been case hardened from the factory. Would you suggest me to mess with it or just leave it as is?
Stan
Thorns in fingers and hands, cuts in arms and legs, blisters in feets, happiness in me.
Why not engrave it? Again, have your engraver test it in a hidden place and he will quickly determine if it is too hard to cut; but I don't think it will be.
Posts: 17376 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009
I don't understand all the negative comments against engraving. No one has presented a reason. I have had many finished (and some case hardened ones) guns engraved with no problems. As for case hardening, before you anneal anything, check it first to see exactly how hard it is; most modern cases are very thin and soft enough to engrave with carbide tools. Turnbull's hardening is a good example; excellent colors but almost no hardness. Especially on steel like 4140, he puts no case on them at all; just colors. Modern alloy steels, like used on the Heym, don't need to be very hard, and they aren't too hard to engrave. Only very old rifles made from wrought iron or low carbon steel are likely to be hard. It is easy for your engraver to check. I invite those who say "no" to present some data.
Posts: 17376 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009
Ok I'll bite. I don't know metallurgy as well as some and sure don't know metal "numbers". What I understand is case hardening does just that it hardens the metal. That is why engraving is done on soft metal in the white then the action is sent to get hardened. To soften the metal again for engraving, it has to be annealed, engraved and re cased. The problem is that re case hardening carries the danger of possibly warping the action. As finicky as DR are with their regulation why would you want to risk problems with regulation if the action is even minimally warped
Case hardening does harden the surface of the steel frame (never barrels) to some degree, depending on a lot of factors. Most modern rifles are not case hardened at all because they are made from chrome moly steel (4140 range) and are through hardened, and are quite soft enough to engrave as is. And even if they are "case hardened", especially if done in Italy and France, they tend to have a very thin case and it is not hard to cut through it when engraving. So, there is usually no need to do any annealing on modern guns. I agree, if that was necessary it would not be a good idea to do it. But it simply isn't needed. As I said, the engraver can tell in about 10 seconds whether his tools can cut it or not. (he will test it in a hidden place first). Jim Downing is my engraver and he does a lot of finished, case hardened guns for me and others. Now, if it is an old rifle made from wrought iron or low carbon steel, or even modern 8620, and has a case that is too deep, you are right, it can't be engraved as is so it would be better to leave it alone, but you can't say never do it because on most modern rifles, it can be done.
Posts: 17376 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009
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Thorns in fingers and hands, cuts in arms and legs, blisters in feets, happiness in me.
