Colin wrote in another thread that non rebounding hammers were a deal breaker for him. I feel the same way. I have sold all of my non rebounding hammer double guns and rifles except my Roddda 4-bore double rifle and my grandfather's 12-bore Scott shotgun.

Another deal breaker for me is the horrid sliding wedge for end fastener. Hate 'em with a passion. Anson button, lever, or the Deeley latch are fine but the wedge I hate.

What say you fellas? What is a deal breaker for you in the world of doubles?

Cal, for me its Damascus barrels. I know many feel they're at least as strong as fluid steel. I just cant trust hammering pieces of metal around a mandrel as consistent and strong as extruded steel.

All nonsense; train as you fight; learn how to manage your equipment and use it.
These features are simply variations on traditional designs. Not flaws.
Train. As I say, Americans are spoiled; some people would kill to own and shoot a DR with non rebounding hammers, etc. They aren't broken.
Damascus barrels? I had an Alex Henry 450 once; shot fine. But I can see not trusting them, although they are not thin shotgun barrels.

How about $$$$$$ ?

I screwed up the next message process.

Interesting. I use twist or Damascus barrels almost daily. As to $$$$$$. An interesting study would be to see what a Holland Royal cost in 1910, allow for inflation, and see what it should cost today.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
All nonsense; train as you fight; learn how to manage your equipment and use it.
These features are simply variations on traditional designs. Not flaws.
Train. As I say, Americans are spoiled; some people would kill to own and shoot a DR with non rebounding hammers, etc. They aren't broken.
Damascus barrels? I had an Alex Henry 450 once; shot fine. But I can see not trusting them, although they are not thin shotgun barrels.

I am with you on this one,whichever gun you have? get good with it,although I have several DR'S,I have no hammer guns,except single shots,Sharps etc,I would not mind a hammer in 500 BPE though ,a deal breaker for me is simply the price!

Poor condition for the price, otherwise, if I like it I can adapt. I love muzzleloaders so wedge fore ends, non-rebounding locks, straight stocks with iron grips all suite me just fine. I like my top lever hammerless rifle as much as my non-rebounding Jones under-lever.

For me it's barrels that don't 'ring', squeezed lumps, rusted chambers/bores, and screws that show obvious major 'buggering' indicating unknown perils inside the action. If given a chance to shoot one first, bad vertical regulation is definitely a deal breaker.

Started off talking about design parameters, now it is on condition.
Two different things.
My only deal breaker is that they not be broken in half right in front of the chambers, for example. And I would even still buy it, at the right price. Maybe pitted so badly that you can see light through the bores.
No, I can reline those....
Hand forged frame from Peshawar? Sure.
I have low, or no, standards.

I have few design parameters that would be reason to exclude a nice double except some of the odd transitory efforts. Jones under lever or top lever, rebounding or not, hammers or hammerless. I could not care less.

Ok, no Greener side safety or single triggers on a dangerous game gun. That is about all I can come up with.

Not sure if its a deal breaker, but I'm not too fond of beavertail forends.

I really enjoy the feel of splinter type forends in both my double rifles &

my shotguns. My good buddy shoots a Mod 21 Winchester shotgun & to

me it feels like a piece of 2x4 lumber in my hands, but he loves it?

Yeah, single triggers is it. I would not take a single trigger double rifle for free.
Perfectly safe though; pretty sure no one is going to make the offer anyway.

Single trigger and beaver tail fore-end.

I say that but I've owned a couple of beaver tailed doubles. I used to dilute good whisky with Coca-Cola also before I became more refined in my tastes!

Todd's dream double!

asus laptop number keys not working

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd's dream double!

asus laptop number keys not working

The Janet Reno of doubles.

Or RuPaul? :-)

A dealbreaker for me is a double under caliber 400. In my opinion, bolt actions and single shots work better for lighter cartridges intended for lighter game animals at longer distances. Given that I feel doubles are for dangerous game, I will agree that non-rebounding hammers would likely also be deal breaker on any double I would own.

RC

Wildcatter, I agree...doubles are used in big calibers for large game. In any other instance, a scoped bolt rifle makes much more sense.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd's dream double!

asus laptop number keys not working

The Janet Reno of doubles.

Poor Janet Reno! I liked her.

Anyway, I have a hard time not liking guns in any config. If I had a deal breaker, it'd likely be aesthetic vs functional. Maybe high-relief stock carving might make me avoid buying one, even at the right price. I might also have a hard time with a single trigger. I thought fiber optic sights or red dots might keep me from buying one, but I'm finding I like them. I guess never say never.

And I like the lighter calibers, even though a bolt gun is definitely better suited for hunting non-dangerous game. The doubles are just so cool.

As-is- no-returns.. or a seller that never fired the gun.

Now I own and shoot an Alex Henry PBE in .500-400 Damascus with super solid barrels, Jones underlever, and non-rebounding hammers. And it shoots. To each their own.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Todd's dream double!

asus laptop number keys not working

Janet Reno:

There is one caliber under 400 that belongs in a DR; the 9.3x74. Very useful for creatures smaller than a buffalo.
As for the any sayers on non rebounding hammers, I really don't get what is wrong with them. I trained and learned how to take the .2 milliseconds to bring them off the firing pins.
Dr Stewart (as indicated above) has mastered his AH 500-450 and I have seen him use it; no issues noted.
You Americans are spoiled and want everything done for you. I recommend staying at home and watching TV. Don't touch any mechanical devices more complicated than a spoon.
Jamet Reno; dead for 5 years now; I'm sure she looks better, half rotten.

Non rebounding hammers
Toplever with hammers
Greener ext.
Beaver forends
English dr in german calibers
Sleeved barrels
Relined barrrels
Restocked guns that doesn’t duplicate original lines.

I like any double rifle ever made in some chambering, for jack rabbit, to elephant, I'm even thinking of making a double rifle for my great grand son chambered for .22 long rifle, with 16 inch barrels and a stock to fit a five year old!
Would I take on an elephant with a 9.3x74 mm? Absolutely not, but I have have a Merkel so chambered and I simply love shooting it on any of the planes game in Africa, but I prefer a 470H/H for cape buff or large bear in Alaska.
I use my Merkel 9'3X74 and a 8.3X74/16 ga shot barreled combination for all American game including black bear.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''I think double rifles and combination guns are my favorite gun to hunt with or simply punch targets at the range. ................. MacD37

+1 on those damnable beaver tails.

Sounds more like the collectors parade to me..For a hunting rifle thats accurate and strong, I prefer a Searcy hands down and I'll cut down and rechecker the stock to match the English gun..I hunted mostly with my A&N 450-400s and Sweet Thang, my most accurate old English Jeffery in 450-400..Nobody ever owned a double as accurate as my Searcy 470, the one Butch won the Nationals with, it shot under an inch, I sold it back to Butch as he wanted it real bad, sent me a 450-400 that shot an inch and a half...about the size of a buffalos eye, thats close enough for "guvment" work and any rifle, especially a double.

I hope I never have to deal with deal breakers, I like them all..feel/pointability, condition, accuracy and price for sure.

I can deal with the rest if its in working order, even hammers..To each his own..

BUT this thread changed all that, beaver tail forends say drag out the cabinet rasp and checkering tool, and single trigger leave me cold, but thats not deal breakers is just a walk on by...

A double originally was two rifles in one stock, if one fails the other is supposed to continue to work thus two triggers, two barrels and on and on..

Single triggers - I much prefer double triggers on side by sides and over and unders.

And a gun that doesn’t fit me in any shape or form. And I shoot left handed so it rather precludes many many guns.

And finally price. I have a couple of guns which were pretty much heading gor the great melting pot, but they cost me minimal pennies. A bit of TLC and cleaning off the grime revealed a well used but salvageable gem. A rejointing - £250 - and my W J Jeffery 410 is probably my favourite gun to shoot. So what if the hand is cracked and been repaired, there are some dings on the stock and barrels somewhat pitted - it shoots bloody well, has a long stock and weighs 4 1/2lbs. Its the gun I carry when working the dogs and use it to take any birds that break back. Many a phaesant would wish that I had never saved it from destruction, but the cant because they have become a phaesant curry.

All of the above.

I would love a .30-30/.303 double, but that would be after something larger than my 9,3x74r.

MacD, I’m sure you meant to type 16” barrels…

quote:

Originally posted by DCS Member:
I would love a .30-30/.303 double, but that would be after something larger than my 9,3x74r.

MacD, I’m sure you meant to type 16” barrels…

You are correct! I changed it in my post!
.............. MacD37

For what its worth in my 40 plus years of booking hunts the majoriy of doubles I saw going to buffalo camps was the 9.3x74 and don't recall a single complaint...They worked, and they were less expensive.

I would not hesitate to hunt buffalo with them or elephant for that matter with solids of course..Same for the 9.3x62 and have used that one, or the 375 Flanged, they have all performed well...Ive also seen and know of a number of ladies and younger hunters that have had success with the 30-06 and 220 gr. solids on some of those hunts.

Again its where you stick a properly constructed bullet that counts.

Deal breaker on doubles??? My wife.

New case colors do it for me, and yeah, single trigger and restocked as well.

Price. Working on correcting that as a deal breaker.
Single triggers on DG rifles. That wouldn't bother me on a small bore.
Haven't used one with non-rebounding hammers, so I don't know if that bothers me.
A stock that doesn't fit can be replaced or fixed. Issues with the action would probably cause me to walk away.

Not sure why folks don't like Beavertail forends.

I have three DR's; a .470 K gun (Which I may sell), a Charles Osborne 450-.400 3-1/4 (1892 vintage) and a Armeria de Madrid, back action sidelock in .500NE I had them make for me. I ordered it with Beavertail forend specifically. I did so to give me the ability to wrap my hands around the barrels and forend without closing up the sight picture.

Growing up, my dad had a bunch of SxS shotguns, most of them are Beavertail . Perhaps that's why I am fond of them?

Light weight is what I dislike. A double needs to have adequate weight to help tame the recoil. I had a SIACE in .45-70. Light weight and a real kicker. My 10.5 lb 450-400 is more pleasant to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by dougfinn:
Light weight is what I dislike. A double needs to have adequate weight to help tame the recoil. I had a SIACE in .45-70. Light weight and a real kicker. My 10.5 lb 450-400 is more pleasant to shoot.

I agree completely with this. The rifle in the above pictures is 10# and smacks you pretty good. 10-12 shots is about all I want.

I also have a Charles Osborne 450-.400 3-1/4. It als about 10# and is an absolute joy to shoot.