Gentlemen,

I rarely post on AR. In fact I don't post much anywhere on the Internet anymore as I am no longer well suited to it--GWS does a number on one's patience and pleasantness. However, I need some help. I have done some research and searching here on AR, and I have a LOT of questions.

I got this rifle at a super discounted price, and it came with a barrel regulation target which looks fine. There are no grinding marks on the muzzles. I have shot my 416 Rem a fair amount and once shot a 470 NE, so I have a little inkling of what I am about to do. BTW, I have no illusions--this is a bottom of the line entry level double that will need some work, and I too will need some work to learn to shoot it well. This rifle will generate 30 to 50% more recoil than my 9.5 lb 416 Rem with full throttle 400 grain loads.

This 500 NE is WAY too light. My scale says a tad under 9.5 lbs. I am going to add mercury recoil reducers to get the weight to between 10.5 and 11 lbs. Any tips on doing that, and is that the right weight for a 500 NE?

The length of pull to the front trigger is 15.125". That feels a little long. When I set the butt in the crook of my elbow like you would a shotgun, my trigger finger seems most comfortable at the rear trigger--about 14.25" LOP, the same as on my O/U shotgun. Does that LOP sound about right? BTW, I will be cutting the stock and adding a Limbsaver pad.

I am a little concerned about the cheek piece. The 470 I shot several years ago slapped me in the face at each shot. Though I did shoot that rifle well, it was irritating. I am a hell of a lot grumpier now than I was when I shot the 470, and I am wondering if the cheek piece might slap me in the face on my 500? My O/U shotgun has no cheekpiece.

My plan is to get used to this rifle and them make a trip to Africa in 5-7 years--should have the funds saved then. In the meantime I want to get VERY used to this rifle. Along with the full throttle 570 grain DG loads, are there any lighter weight bullets I can use for plinking?

I plan to buy dies, brass, and bullets and load for this rifle. Already have plenty of powders and primers. I am thinking I should also buy the ammo is was regulated with--Hornady DGX to see if I can shoot it like the test target shows. Any thoughts on any of that?

As I learn to shoot this rifle, it might be fun to take it elk hunting. I bet it would thump one of the big Roosies around here pretty well..................

Any other thoughts and advice?


Thanks,

Blaine

I hope your Sabatti shoots as well as mine does.
First thing about the weight, yes it is light but I don't think it is too light. If you carry it for miles after game you will love the weight. Adding weight to the butt stock will only make it heavier and more unbalanced. I hate those infernal recoil reducers. Hearing that sloshing drives me nutts. Also I don't think they help one bit. Weaken the stock is about all.
The stocks on the Sabatti guns have too high a comb and not enough drop at heal. You can do a little shaping of the comb to help with fit. The recoil pad on them is junk so I cut the stock on mine and put a 3/4 inch good pad on it. The sights were also junk and I made a riser for the front sight and a peep sight for the rear which also helped with the comb height problem. The peep sight makes it really easy to shoot and is very fast.
Starting out shooting I would advise you get some 300 to 450 grain bullet and shoot those until you get used to the gun. A full 570 grain load will rock your world if you aren't comfortable with the gun. My gun regulates great with many different bullet weights and is really fun to shoot with 350 gr cast bullets. If you don't enjoy shooting your gun you will never shoot it well.
Take a look at the 500 Nitro a new exploration thread in the doubles forum. Most of the work was done using my 500 Sabatti and there are many reduced loads listed.

Sam

I would shoot the rifle as is,before I did ANYTHING to it.

I would start out with light loads, lead bullets will be fine and then shoot some full power loads.

If you do not reload then contact Superior Ammunition. They can reload the practice loads and the full power loads for you.

I have shot their ammo in 9,3x74R, 450/400 3 1/4", 470, 450 No2, and 600 Nitro.

1-605-347-9192 www.superiorammo.com

Sabattis have very straight stocks and don't tend to slap your face like others, like the Chapuis's, do. I would not want more heel drop; that just accentuates face slap. As for the combs being too high; that depends on your face structure; mine is perfect for my face. they can be high for people who have full cheeks, with iron sights. With scopes, which I doubt you want on a 500, everyone will find them good. I added a merc weight to my 450 and it tamed it right down, but does add a pound to carry. (Don't worry about weakening the stock; there is already a hole in it, and just needs opened up very slightly to take the brake. ) LOP sounds too long for you if you can't comfortably reach the front trigger; that is the most important one, being the first one you will pull on DG. Not that the second one is not just as, perhaps more, important. I did file my rear sight to a shallow V notch; and added a Pachmayr decelerator.

I had two Sabatti DRs in 500NE and returned both to Cabela's. I had JJ install 2 mercury recoil reducers for weight and to relieve the headache I got every time I fired 4 rounds from it. What a difference! The Sabatti became a pleasure to shoot. JJ also did some other "clean-up" work for me - as stated the recoil pad is a POS and the sights need some work as well. Unfortunately It was only later that the cut muzzles became an issue and mine had them. It also wouldn't shoot well, so it went back at a loss. The regulation targets were worthless on the original guns.

I now have another 500NE, but it's not a Sabatti. I hope yours shoots as well as Sam Rose' does.

afp; Congratulations on your new rifle it looks very nice. I will check one more thing on this gun, I will look very closely at the rifling inside, despite that you don't see any grinding and no oval effect at the muzzles.

Make sure that the rifling reaches all the way to the muzzle and no grinding of the rifling do exist, you will need good light and a good magnifying glass.

If your muzzles and rifling are good (no grinding) and it does shoot like the target or very close to it, I would say you have gotten yourself one heck of a deal. Enjoy it and enjoy the great savings.

Don’t under estimate these guns they might be an entry level guns price wise but they are very well built and good solid guns. The only issues some people had with them are the regulation method, the grinding of the muzzles which yours don't have and some of them did not shoot well, other than that these guns are as good as any out there. Certainly Sam’s Sabatti can attest to that he had had few hundred rounds down through its tubes and it still shoots great. So does many other owners of Sabattis who had good experience with them and enjoy shooting them. Certainly I do.


Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best.

Does the serial number begin with an X?

Guys,

Thanks for all the replies so far. I have intensely inspected the muzzles, and all rifling lands are sharp and even at the muzzle. Because mine does not have an "X" in the serial number, I think it is an older one. However, not all of the older ones had issues.

Just ordered dies, and as soon as my Cabela's Rewards points post I'll order some brass. Also, Cast Performance (a local to me Oregon company) offers bullets in .511 diameter in 350, 435, and 525 grains. I see a path to developing recoil tolerance for this rifle.............

Because doubles are operated at lower pressures of around 45,000 PSI (I DID read Sam's and Michael's long thread--great info!), I would assume the brass lasts a very long time. What kind of life do you guys get out of your double rifle brass?

afp

Re the life of Brass, this is a good test to do at the beginning.

Get 4 cases, resize them so they chamber,
load them up and mark them R and L and then
chamber them in the R and L barrels.

Fire them as a pair, open gun, take out the
cases and see if they will chamber in the other chamber (the one they weren't fired in).

If all 4 do this, then it is likely you
can get away with only neck resizing which
extends the life of the case.

If not, you'll have to set you dies by
trial and error so they resize the case
to a level that they will chamber in either
chamber.

afp--Blaine,
I own three Sabatti double rifles, none with X in serial number, and none with rifling ground (they apparently did that atrocity only on initial large first order from cabelas, under pressure to fill order quickly--according to Mr. Sabatti in interview) one .450/.400, one .470, and one .500. When I got he .450/.400, I inspected the muzzles very carefully, under good light and strong magnification to be certain of no muzzle grinding---other two I bought prior to my learning about the grinding issue, and, frankly, I simply got lucky; good bores. All three are well regulated and shoot well, especially the .470, and it has very pretty wood grain pattern, among the best I have seen on any Sabatti, and I have looked at all of them at online Cabellas stores in past few years. I did quite a bit of custom work on my three, which added some weight to them (including TIG welding extensions on the trigger guard, badly needed on the .500, which is entirely too light) Trigger guard extensions were extended all the way out to steel trap grip caps I added. I stripped the gloss stock finish, added London alkynit oil rubbed finish, new England Custom gun recoil pad that pushes upward on/off, for ease at getting to the throughbolt, and added mercury recoil reducer in .500---these do not weaken the stock, as it is already drilled out for throughbolt, as are most modern double rifles made around the world. I get no recoil face slap from any of mine. Agree almost 100% with what dpcd had to say on everything he commented about. The Sabatti is a damn good rifle, well worth the money, and will shoot as well as any modern ones made anywhere in the world today, and will hold up as well as any of them too.

Maybe someone mentioned it above, I did not see it. It has to do with the triggers. I have a Sabatti in .450 NE. The muzzles were not ground on my rifle and it shoots well. I did three things to the rifle. One, I replaced the POS recoil pad with a new red Decelerator pad. Two, I added a one pound mercury reducer to the butt stock (helped with recoil and balance). The .500 is much too light (most are under 10 pounds) for caliber in my opinion. Three, I had the triggers done by someone that knows double rifles. These rifles come with about the worst triggers you will ever find on a rifle. They need to be cleaned up and lightened significantly. I am convinced that some of the issues people have had with "regulation" had more to do with the trigger pull than actual regulation.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I would shoot the rifle as is,before I did ANYTHING to it.

I would start out with light loads, lead bullets will be fine and then shoot some full power loads.

If you do not reload then contact Superior Ammunition. They can reload the practice loads and the full power loads for you.

I have shot their ammo in 9,3x74R, 450/400 3 1/4", 470, 450 No2, and 600 Nitro.

1-605-347-9192 www.superiorammo.com

I agree!

Not me, not at 9.5 pounds.

If you decide to shoot it as is, for educational purposes, make sure you are standing up; NOT sitting at a bench, unless you are built like Conan. (Barbarian, not O"brian). On second thought, some light guys and gals can take more recoil than heftier ones; that inertia thing you know. One of those laws of physics.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
If you decide to shoot it as is, for educational purposes, make sure you are standing up; NOT sitting at a bench, unless you are built like Conan. (Barbarian, not O"brian). On second thought, some light guys and gals can take more recoil than heftier ones; that inertia thing you know. One of those laws of physics.

SUPER advice!! I made the mistake of sitting at a bench with my double, and the scope eyepiece bell put a nice, deep crescent cut between my eyes. ...lesson learned.

Again, thanks for all the replies. I did come to the conclusion that before I do anything to the rifle that might void the warranty, I need to shoot it with the ammo it was regulated with to make sure it has no issues.

And.............it needs to be shot from the bench. I won't be using a scope. I know how to shoot heavy recoiling rifles from the bench, and I guarantee I'll be using my Past recoil shield. It will still be unpleasant, but I'll only need two or four shots.

I guess if I need to refamilarize myself with heavier recoil I can put a few rounds though my 416 (60 ft lbs), and a few through my Guide Gun. On paper the Guide Gun has less recoil than the 416, but 420 grainers at 2000 fps make that little Marlin quite unpleasant..........

Blaine

I would submit (purely for discussion purposes) that double rifles never should be fired from the bench. Sitting at a bench interferes with the DR's natural recoil dynamics/muzzle jump and flip. A standing rest; yes, but never from a sitting bench with a rest. Having said that, I always fire new DRs from the bench, with good results so what does that do to my theory? No proper classic English double rifle was ever fired from a bench. Not sporting you know.

With my MASSIVE double shooting experience of not one but TWO shots from a 470 NE 10-15 years ago, both of which would have drilled a Buffalo in the nose at 50 yds (lucky shots?), from standing offhand, I say I agree with you.

However, I need to know the accuracy of the rifle itself before I spend all time I'm going to spend shooting offhand.

I think if I sit at the bench so my back is straight--means taking the drum stool I used for a seat when I shot 1K BR, and instead of the Bald Eagle rest I use my Hoppe's with the forend in my hand and my hand resting on the rest, and then gentle support form the rear rest; I can come close to simulating a standing position whilst seated at the bench.

BTW, I have not been this enthused about shooting and working up a rifle in a long time. I am also looking forward to the next 5-7 years as I prep for Africa. The preparation will be as enjoyable as the actual hunt............

quote:

Originally posted by afp:
I think if I sit at the bench so my back is straight--means taking the drum stool I used for a seat when I shot 1K BR, and instead of the Bald Eagle rest I use my Hoppe's with the forend in my hand and my hand resting on the rest, and then gentle support form the rear rest; I can come close to simulating a standing position whilst seated at the bench.

BTW, I have not been this enthused about shooting and working up a rifle in a long time. I am also looking forward to the next 5-7 years as I prep for Africa. The preparation will be as enjoyable as the actual hunt............

+1
It's great to be enthusiastic! Hope you enjoy your new rifle!

Well, I am not going the be able to shoot this thing until next weekend. I have ordered dies, brass, bullets, ammo and misc; but the ammo won't be here until Monday.

I have decided to make the LOP 14.5". That is what I measure if I were measuring for a shotgun, and that is about the LOP with the factory butt pad removed. With the factory pad removed both triggers are comfortable. Once I am convinced there are no issues that might require warranty work, I'll cut the stock for my Limbsaver pad--though eventually I might get the pad Jack has described.

I ordered an 11 oz mercury recoil reduced that will fit in the existing hole in the stock. I can remove it if I don't like it. I will first shoot it without the reducer, and then with it. I imagine changing the balance and weight could affect POI and possibly regulation. I may also add shot to the fore end if I keep the reducer and need more barrel heaviness.

If I want to avoid using the trim die I'll have to buy a new case trimer. My current one doesn't have a shell holder big enough.

My front trigger is factory set a 2 lbs and the rear at 6. I am thinking I'd rather have the front at 3 lbs. Are these triggers adjustable?

The triggers are adjustable via the trigger springs and the sear engagement angles. Not for the mechanically challenged. You won't need a trimmer for a while; those big straight cases don't stretch much. The merc brake will change the balance to a more butt heavy balance (obviously). some like it, some don't. In my 450 it didn't change POI or regulation. I don't really like the balance but it kicks harder without it. For hunting, it would be ok.

Just my $0.02. I would not use a Limbsaver pad. A red Pachmayr Decelerator pad looks more traditional (and if I never see another POS Limbsaver pad that melts into your carpet that will be too soon) and will work just as well:

http://www.pachmayr.com/home/D752B.php

Have someone that knows what they are doing work the triggers. It is more than just reducing the trigger pull, you have to ensure that the left trigger will still hold while the gun is in recoil from the right barrel. I would not go tinkering with that myself.

MJ

That was one batch of pads that the liquid hadn't cured inside
(it was still liquid) and leaked out.

And was about 5 or more years ago.

So I have heard. To my knowledge there has never been a "leaky" batch of Pachmayr pads. Besides, a double with a black Limbsaver pad is . . . what you would expect to see on Swamp People.

Well, the little brown truck of hapiness showed up with my Hornady DGS. Guess I will be shooting tomorrow after all................

Make sure to wrap your trigger finger with a band-aid before you shoot from a bench. My 450/400 sabatti has cut my finger when firing the rear trigger, it doesn't do this when shooting offhand, only when shooting from a bench.
I hope it shoots good for you, have fun and enjoy your new rifle.