I am in need of load data for my new Merkel 8x57R Double. Merkel says they regulate (actually they said test fire not regulate) the 8x57R with Norma Alaskan 196gr ammo. I looked up the specs on this load and it give 2592 at muzzle. Of course that bullet is not in any of my manuals so I would imagine I will try 200gr first. Can't find any 200gr loads that appoach 2592 I imagine because of the 2 bore size and weak action concerns of the 8mm. Anyone have any loads that they use that are safe and approach 2600fps with a 200gr bullet. I'll try other weights as I find one that regulates. Will probably use some 7x57R brass as 8x57R seems in short supply at my normal suppliers. Also have to get a scope mount as it came with removable blocks in the rib but no mount. Any help would be appreciated. My thanks in advance.

You need to do a little research before you start handloading for a double rifle.

Norma lists the 196 grain Alaska at 2,395 fps in the 8X57JRS, not 2,592, and that's probably from a 24" barrel, not the 21" that you have. This is the load your rifle was tested with. Norma lists 2,526 fps for the same bullet in the 8X57JS, which is the rimless S bore. RWS lists their 196 grain 8X57JRS at 2,395 fps as well. You looked up the specs for the 8X57JS, the rimless S bore. Wrong cartridge, big difference.

This is a German rifle for European spec ammo. Forget the American stuff because it doesn't apply. The significant difference has to do with rimmed vs rimless. J vs S bore has nothing to do with it. CIP max pressure for the 8X57JRS (S bore rimmed) is 3,300 BAR, or 47,863 PSI, vs 3,900 BAR, or 56,564 PSI, for the 8X57JS (S bore rimless). By contrast, the max pressure for the 8X57JR (the J bore rimmed) is only 1,450 PSI less than that of the S bore rimmed.

Your rifle is chambered for the 8X57JRS cartridge (the rimmed S bore) and has 21" barrels. Anything over 2,300 fps with 200 grain bullets would be pushing it. A 200 grain 2,600 fps load from those barrels just might produce pressures that would equal or exceed those of the proof load your rifle was proved with. Real bad idea.

The smart approach with a double rifle that is new to you is to chronograph it first with the factory load that it was regulated with, and use the velocity data obtained as a baseline.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400 Nitro Express,
Thanks for the information but what I would really like is to find a source of loading data for the cartridge. If as you say the rimmed version is rated 12,000psi below the rimless equivalent then I can't use 8x57 data. I can probably have a dealer order some factory rounds but that is not practical to shoot in any quantity so I will probably sell the rifle and let someone else screw with it if I can't find reliable reloading data. That's what you get when you buy a pig in a poke I suppose. I should realize by my age that things that look too good to be true usually are.

Here's the reloading data from Steve's pages.

Steve's reloading data

I don't think it's a pig in a poke at all. It should make a nice game rifle.

Norma will have data on it. Also, I'd probably call Speer, Hornady, etc., and talk to the tech guys, and get a propellant recommendation. Go ahead and order some Norma 196 grain ammo. You don't need a lot, just get a box. Chronograph it and use that velocity for your benchmark. Then work up with 200 grain. When you reach the benchmark, stop.

If you think 8X57JRS data is sparse....my primary hunting rifle for many years has been a .400/.360 Purdey NE. Look that one up in your Speer Manual. It ain't the end of the world.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

The 8X57JR, and 8X57JRS are two of the best ballanced cartridges one can own in a light double rifle, for north America! I have owned two S/S double rifles, and a Cape gun (8X57JR /16 ga shotgun S/S) chambered for 8X57 JR (.318 bore) and two singleshot break-top rifles chambered for the 8X57JRS, and they are top elk, Muledeer, and Black bear rifles, with Norma's 196 Gr soft points, in both diameters!

I'll look at some of my old Data and get back, but Norma makes brass, loaded ammo, and fine bullets in both dia. The standard bullet for the rimmed 8MMs is 196 grs! Sellier& Bellot also have loaded ammo for these two rounds. Their 8X57JR (.318 DIA) shoots great in My H. Berrela Cape gun!

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I will probably sell the rifle and let someone else screw with it if I can't find reliable reloading data. That's what you get when you buy a pig in a poke I suppose. I should realize by my age that things that look too good to be true usually are.

zimhunter, if you do decide to sell the rifle, let me know at DUGABOY1@aol.com

After getting some brass and encouragement I'm going to give to give it a try as it's really a nice gun. All I can find out is it was regulated with 196gr Norma Alaska's. Have no idea what the velocity is and can find NO internet source for Norma Data. Called the distributor shown on Norma's webpage and will try again tomorrow when their tech person is in.I had intended to use 8x57 loading data to load for this rifle and really can't see a major problem with that if it will regulate. This model is produced in 30-06 which should be slightly greater in pressure than the normal 8x57 so I would really think it would be safe load data to use.
400 Nitro- I had a 400/360 Farquarson take off barrel I was going to put on a Ruger No.3 and rechamber for 9.3x74R as the bore/groove was perfect and the barrel was a really nice one. Couldn't find a reamer and put it on backshelf. Wish I had carried thru. I loaded quite a lot for 9.3x74r and got some loaded Norma ammo once on a trade and one case had a thick rim that I suppose was intended for a 360. I set it aside and still have it.

Thanks to all for the information it is greatly appreciated.

zimhunter, I think the rule of thumb is use 8X57JS (rimless Mauser) loads, and back off 10%, and work up to regulation. In my case I backed off 15%, and worked up. If I remember right, I ended up with a 10% reduction of the 8X57JS load with the 196 gr Norma round nose,in Norma brass, and CCI primers, that shot to the sights, in my singleshot, break-top rifle! The strength of the Merkel rifle is not in question here, but regulation is. The rifle will take a full 8X57 JS load, but I simply don't think it would shoot to anywhere near regulation! I believe you will find the regulation speed to be around 2350 to 2400 fps! with a 196 gr bullet. A really decent load for North America.

Now get that thing shooting, and pop a couple Muledeer with it, and you will be hooked!

Zimbabwe
I would use 8x57 loading data as a guide.
Pick the bullet you want and use the starting load or a 15% reduction, which ever is less.

Load 20 rounds. Check the pressure on the first 2 you fire, if everything is OK shoot the other 18.
Shoot some at 25,50 and 100 yards.

This is just to get you used to the rifle and see how the first load shoots at different distances.

Then baised on how the starting load shot you can start developing loads that will regulate with the rifle.

Keep us posted on your results.

The 8x57R is a great double rifle calibre.

In the new Norma Reloading Manual you can find some datas for the 8x57IRS and the Alaska: 42,1grs N 202 for 2402fps and 45,1grs Norma 203-B for 2428fps, MAX.-LOADS!!