I may be able to get a Remington (Baikal) double rifle in 45-70 for around $650 (almost new condition).
Is it worth it?
The double rifles have always intrigued me, but the prices are f'n-nutz. This sounds way to cheap, and from what I've been able to find while searching info on them, people are split on liking and dis-liking them.
I have several Marlin 45-70's so this would just be another toy to play with, but I don't want to throw away $ on a piece of crap.

Thanks for your input.
Fish

The price is right.........IF you want a DR, and IF you can tolerate the crudity of the Baikal. They shoot. They can be regulated. "Liking/disliking them" .....hinges on whether the individual rifle can be reliably regulated. Once done.....you have a functional DR, that, because of inherent ugliness, ought not to cause you worries re: scratches and dings.

I bought one 4 months ago for about the same price and have been having fun playing with it. The 300 and 350 grain bullets shoot accurately in each of the barrels but not together. My gun shoots the left barrel to the point of aim and the right barrel one inch to the right of it at 25 yards but it's also 6" low.

I have to find some narrow shims to insert under the muzzle collar of the right barrel to raise the point of impact.

I have some 405 grain bullets that I'm going to load next and see it they effect the vertical spread first.

Swordfish,

Here's my take on the subject. You have to be aware of what you are buying. What are it's capabilities and what are it's limitations. Is the money being spent worth those constraints?

My take is that if you like the gun, it does what its supposed to do and you enjoy it...buy it and have fun.

While I appreciate a $100 bottle of wine, I can still derive pleasure from a nice $8 bottle of wine and chose to do so regularly. I won't pretend to convince someone that it is as as good as or better than the $100 bottle.

If it makes you happy "Just Do It" to coin a popular phrase.

Baikals are very strong and for that price, you can have a lot of fun with it. The barrels are adjustable, sort of, so regulation is up to the shooter. As for looks; not so much going for them.

Sounds like I should just start saving up for the real thing, and hope for a deal to show. I'm not into ugly.

Thanks for the input guys, have a good one.
Fish

quote:

Originally posted by Swordfish:
I may be able to get a Remington (Baikal) double rifle in 45-70 for around $650 (almost new condition).
Is it worth it?
The double rifles have always intrigued me, but the prices are f'n-nutz. This sounds way to cheap, and from what I've been able to find while searching info on them, people are split on liking and dis-liking them.
I have several Marlin 45-70's so this would just be another toy to play with, but I don't want to throw away $ on a piece of crap.

Thanks for your input.
Fish

Swoardfish The little Russian doubles are what they are! Though they are not H&Hs and are in fact not even Savage/Steavens combination gun quality, they are well worth the price you are looking at!

These rifles have adjustable regulation, and once regulated they make fine pick-up rack or canoe rifles. The triggers are set up at about a fifty pound pull as a rule, and need to be lightened up by someone whos knows what they are doing.

The quality of blueingh, and wood suprised me the first time I saw one, and once the little fixes are made they are suprisingly nice little knockabout rifles worth the $650 price tag.

If you uinderstand regulation and regulate the rifle properly you will not be sorry you bought the rifle, and if you capsize your canoe and loose the rifle, at least you can be glad it wasn't a $60,000 Holland & Holland!

Any double rifle is better than not having a double rifle! So I say buy it, and welcome to the addiction!

................................................................. ................

Swordfish,

That takes this argument/discussion to the next level. What constitutes "the real thing" when it comes to DRs.

I had considered a Baikal in the past but wanted a different chambering than offered. The Baikal didn't really lend itself to what I was planing on. Have you looked at one in person or handled one in person? Given the price I would consider buying one for my son to use.

I guess the next level of consideration is a shotgun that has been converted to DR. Butch Searcy started this way. But if you'll look at the J. White Gunsmithing posts you'll also see I took this route and it was an "epic fail" to coin a youthful, contemporary phrase. There are detractors of such guns out there and some strong supporters. W. Ellis Brown wrote a very informative and useful book on the subject. He also does the work and makes a gun very much to my liking. There are others in this forum that do similar work. GunBroker has a beautiful, in my assessment, conversion to .45-70 from a Beretta. Search 'double rifle" and you will find it. That'll give you an idea of what you are contending with at this level.

Another possible consideration is the Sabatti which is manufactured as a double rifle by the factory if you will. Again this is an area of contention but I am strongly considering them as a viable option once my money is refunded from the previously mentioned attempt. You're looking at ~$3000 for a 9.3x74 or .45-70 and then ~$5000-6000 for the "true" DR chamberings. Do your homework and search the forum for the particulars of the issues with the muzzles/regulation of the Sabatti.

Beyond this you are getting into the DR's that are built as such by established builders e.g. Searcy, Heym, Chapuis, Merkel, etc. I think you'd be lucky to find a used one below ~$8000 from what I have seen.

I am by no means an expert on this matter. I am hopefully wrapping up a deal gone wrong, in my assessment, and thus will be in the market once again so I am doing the same soul searching as your probably are right now.

Eric

Consider it a bit of money tied up, not spent. That rifle will never be worth any less than it is right now, unless you use it for a shovel.
Sometimes, you just gotta say "What the f***."
It shoots a large bore, medium power rimmed cartridge, it's a little rough around the edges (OK, quite rough) and it's fun.

Bottom line; it is worth 650; you can't touch anything else close to a DR for that price. Or 4 times that price. You can always sell it later if you find another.

get it .. and shoot the snot out of it .. its not a 14K rifle.. which means several things, most directly, it doesn't cost 14K

Buy it and have fun!! I bought one a little over four years ago when they first came out and available in the US. Had a smith go through the triggers - all he could really do is smooth them up and got them both to about 3 lbs but not really possible to adjust the slack or over-travel. He also cut a little off the cocking springs so that once it is broken open and cocked the barrels would stay fully open on their own but ones loaded would still hold in the "half-open" carry position.

Took me a long time to sort out the regulation. Mostly just trying to figure out what bullet, weight and velocity I was going to finally settle on. After a lot of burned powder and finally settling plain old Rem 405's at 1600fps I got serious about regulating it.

Initially, with the factory iron sites, at 50 yds each barrel would print into individual 2" groups and each group 6 to 8 inches apart with similar vertical spreads. Using a combination of a bench vice, pipe wrench and force (it is Russian after all) to get most of the vertical spread out then a "shim" cut from the end of a feeler gauge to fine tune the vertical spread to within an inch. I mounted an old Weaver K2.5 on it and canted it just enough so that both barrels now shoot side be side vertically at 100 yds. The horizontal regulation was handled pretty effectively by just using the jack-screw they have between the barrels. Bottom-line is it now shoots both barrels into a single 2" group at 100 yds.

Here is the kicker - Just got back this weekend from our annual trip to Namibia and guess what went with me? First blooding of the trip was with the little double on a camp meat Gemsbok at about 90 yds. Frontal chest shot exactly where aimed in the spine and dropped like a sack of potatoes!

It was DAMN fun to be carrying a "double" in Africa, be it a $1000 or $100,000 version!! To be honest, I am not sure I'd want any really expensive rifle in Africa with all the brush, banging about in "bakis" and climbing koppies and not to mention the airline goons (Still waiting for my rifles to show up three days after getting home).

Buy it for what it is and don't try to make it into something it isn't or kid yourself into using it as a DG weapon - PG and and most anything in North America to 150 yds. You'll have a damn hard time wiping the ear to ear grin off your face!

By the way, after 4 years my wife finally got "her" Kudu. A monster that qualified for a Namibian platinum medal.

Where could I buy one these days? Don't know the source of these guns, any ideas? It just make a nice Jeep gun for here in New Mexico? Thanks.

Larry Sellers

quote:

Originally posted by Swordfish:
I may be able to get a Remington (Baikal) double rifle in 45-70 for around $650 (almost new condition).
Is it worth it?
The double rifles have always intrigued me, but the prices are f'n-nutz. This sounds way to cheap, and from what I've been able to find while searching info on them, people are split on liking and dis-liking them.
I have several Marlin 45-70's so this would just be another toy to play with, but I don't want to throw away $ on a piece of crap.

Thanks for your input.
Fish

I've read comments that they are a strong action, but I remember something about a pressure limit warning that comes with the instructions???

Seems like the limit was such that you could/should not reload it to the higher pressure that a Ruger No.1 could take.

They have a "2200 BAR" and "31900 HST" limit printed on the barrel. Best I can tell that is something close to 32,000 psi. I was initially playing with 425gr cast /w gas checks at the max pressure. All I can say is that out of a 6 1/2 pound rifle the recoil was attention getting and the accuracy was terrible. Once I settled on the Rem 405's at 1600 fps it was very pleasant to shoot and the accuracy improved dramatically.

I think that short chambers and thin barrel walls weren't intended to be used with heavy (for 45-70) loads. I also, think that maybe those two design limitations are why Rem stopped importing them - too many people being tempted to try boring the chambers out to beyond design limits.

I have since occasionally seen the 45-70's come up for sale on Gunbroker for around $750 - sometimes as low as $650. Figure someone bought it thinking they were getting a high-end double on the cheap and either unwilling to unable or both to sort the regulation out and gave up. Like I said, it took a gunsmith to do what he could with the triggers and cocking and I lost a lot of hair and burned a bunch of powder getting mine sorted out, but that first Gemsbok on the ground and being able to tote a "double" (cheap or expensive) in Africa was just as much fun as pulling the trigger.

Would not be afraid to use it on any NA game nor any African plains game and even on Leopard - but that would be my limit on African DG. Still have a grin on my face from the trip with it and it will be going again next year.

BOAT ANCHOR
Cal

At 32K psi, you can get some very powerful 45-70 loads out of that. As much as you will want your shoulder to withstand. They are not junk; they are what they are; $650 double rifles. They are not $6500, nor $16,500, rifles by any means and should not be expected to be.

i have one in 45-70 with a removable 4 power scope it is zeroed in with both iron and scope.
it is well worth the money and a lot of fun to
shoot and i dont worry about scratching it up
or dinging it. like the man said it is what it is. i have 3 other high grade doubles and the
remington kills the deer etc. just as dead.