I see the occasional double chambered in 375H&H. Does this cartridge, with it's belted case, pose any issues in a double with respect to loading, extraction/ejection?

And why is a double in 375H&H priced higher than a 9.3x74, as in the Chapuis for example? Is it because of the proven effectiveness and world-wide availability of the 375H&H?

If a guy was to get into the world of double rifles and was able to spend more than a Chapuis in 9.3 but no more than a Chapuis in 375H&H, would this be a good first step?

The origin of the illness I feel coming on is an idea I have about matching my pre-64 model 70 375H&H with a double in the same chambering. Then I'd have a scoped bolt gun and a double in the same caliber. Should be fun, no?

Thanks for your input. Tom

TWL if your going to take the leap, you can get a 450/400 for the same price as a 375 with most DR manufactures, which I believe is a far better choice. In times past I've had a 375 bolt and a 375 in a DR, I opted to sell the DR in the 375 and buy a bigger bore in a DR to cover the balistic spectum better. IMO you already own one of the best bolt rifles ever made in 375 H&H caliber.

Dirk

Don't some Countries limit you to a single firearm per caliber??

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Don't some Countries limit you to a single firearm per caliber??

Jefffive As far as I know, RSA is the only place where importing two rifles of the same chambering is not allowed. I have done this for years with a Ruger no1 chambered for the same cartridge as my double rifle. Today I use two double rifles for everything. They are a pair of Merkels, a 9.3X74R, and a 470NE

TWL, I absolutely love the 375 H&H cartridge, and it has never failed me, in a bolt action, or single shot Ruger No1, but I simply do not like rimless, or belted rimless cartridge in a double rifle. That is simply a personal thing with me. I see no good reason to tempt Mr. Murphy, with a rifle dedicated to use on dangerous game. That, however, has nothing to do with your decision to own one, pleanty of folks have used them for years without misshap. JPK has a very fine double rifle, chambered for 458 Win Mag, and to date I'm not aware of a problem he has had with it.

So! What I'm saying is, if the Chapuis 375 H&H double rifle floats your boat, set sail, many have and came home to tell the tales!

..............Good hunting, and welcome to the DRSS, if you get a double!

I had a Heym double in 375 H&H and was well pleased with it. I took it to Zimbabwe once along with a 375H&H bolt gun. Overnighted in RSA and when I tried to check my guns in I was refused a permit. After much pleading and explanation that I. I was only going to overnight in RSA the officer granted me a 24 HR permit and so noted on it in large letters that it was only good for 24hrs . Really like the rifle though but never really found a use for it.

quote:

Originally posted by TWL:
I see the occasional double chambered in 375H&H. Does this cartridge, with it's belted case, pose any issues in a double with respect to loading, extraction/ejection?

My OPINION is that the extraction/ejection system for a non-rimmed cartridge in a double is not quite as reliable as it is for a rimmed cartridge.

My OPINION is that the 375 H&H develops too much pressure for a double, and will have a negative influence on its longevity.

So, I would not commission the building of a double in 375 H&H. Better a 9.3 x 74 for me.

But I would certainly buy a 375 H&H double in good condition if the price were right.

I have two doubles in belted rimless cartridges. One is a Marcel Thys sidelock in 458wm and the other is an Abiatico & Salvinelli (AKA A&S or FARMARS) sidelock in 375H&H. Both have provided flawless extraction and ejection. I have MANY more rounds through the 458wm, nearing 1000, the 375H&H is relatively new to me.

The 458wm has provided flawless extraction and ejection and there are no signs of any looseness at all.

The system used for these two high end rifles is very different from that used by Chapuis. Where the Chapuis uses a single, relatively narrow, spring loaded "paw" to engage the rim of the belted rimless cartridge, these two use much broader half moon shaped paws which engage a much greater % of the circumference of the rim. The Thys paw is pinned on one end and spring loaded so it will slide over the belt as the cartridge is inserted into the chamber. The A&S is pinned and spring loaded at both ends.

I'm not convinced the Chapuis design can be as smooth or flawless as the A&S or Thys, but I haven't tried one. I would only consider buying an existing 375H&H rifle, of any maker, after shooting it to see if ejection and extraction were issue free. I would not but a new rifle or one I couldn't shoot. A 458wm can easily and cheaply be rechambered to 450NE 3 1/4" leaving plenty of steel for the lower pressure round. A 375H&H is a 375H&H since the flanged or rimmed version reamer won't clean up the H&H belted rimless chamber.

There is a very minor loading difference with the belted rimless cartridges which is easily learned and can be mitigated. You should push gently down on top of the cartridges as you insert them for typical use. They will slide home without issue then. (This technique courtesy of New Guy.)

To facilitate rapid, emergency reloads, I buff the front corner of the belt to round over the 90* angle. (This technique courtesey of JJ Perridoux at Champlin's.) Prior to a DG hunt, I test my ammo in each chamber by dropping it in. If it doesn't just drop in like a rimmed round that cartridge goes into a "practice only" box. If it does, I rotate 90* and try again... Only those rounds which drop straight in each time go to Africa. (Haven't tried this in the 375H&H since it isn't converted to lefty yet.)

I don't share Dirk's opinion that the 450/400 is a better cartridge than the 375H&H. The 375H&H is more versitile, imo, and the better all 'rounder. Also, for a light second rifle on a DG safari, I think the 375H&H is about perfect. It is legal for everything should your big double go tits up or your ammo missing, etc, and ammo is ubiquitous, often available in your safari area, performs well on all sizes of plains game, has a pretty good trajectory for longer shots at plains game to boot.

I bought the 375H&H for elephant hunting in the steep places and for when I get older, any time when a light weight rifle becomes more appealing. The A&S weighs about 8.25lbs, which makes it handy. Wish it was ready for my October trip, part of which will be in Makuti, which is very hilly terrain.

Hope this helps.

JPK

JPK:
Your answer does help indeed. Many thanks.
TWL

TWL

I would agree with 500GRAINS and JPK's posts.

I do however consider the 450/400 far superior to a 375 H&H as a "heavy" however as a second to a 40cal or bigger double a scoped double in 375 H&H or 9,3x74R is a great choice.

I have used a 9,3x74R double as a second to my 450 No2, and my 450/400 3 1/2".

Now the choice of a 375 H&H double vs. a 9,3x74R.

First ballistically, the 375 is a little more powerful than the 9,3x74R.

However baised on my use anything I can do with the 375 I can, and have done with the 9,3x74R.

The 375 is easier to find ammo for.

The 9,3x74R double is more reliable in the fact it is a rimmed design.

Usually 9,3 doubles are smaller and lighter as well as more affordable.

I have shot a 375 H&H Chapuis double, it was reliable the day I shot it, with 2 different kinds of factory ammo, and it was very accurate.

I would not trade my Chapuis 9,3x74R for a 375 H&H double, but if I shot a 375 H&H double that performed well I would not be afraid to buy it.

Can't argue with 450NE No2's points.

Here is a (poor) photo of the Thys 458wm "paw." Don't have one of the A&S, which I think might be better.


JPK

Hog Killer

Thanks, I corrected my typo.

Donald Dallas (p. 208 H&H: The Royal Gunamker) reports on an H&H Royal sxs double in .275 magnum that has interchangeable extractors for either the flanged or the rimless cartridge. Not sure how you would mount which, nor whether the concept would work in a .375 magnum, but it's an intriguing idea.

I've used a .375 rimless magnum, a Joseph Just double, and had the springloaded pawl fail to work due to gunk. Rendered the rifle a single shot that required poking the fired brass out. Was using it for plains game so no issues. Was readily fixed with a cleaning, but you could not pay me, pace JPK, to have a DGR double in a rimless cartridge.

Regards

quote:

I've used a .375 rimless magnum, a Joseph Just double, and had the springloaded pawl fail to work due to gunk. Rendered the rifle a single shot that required poking the fired brass out. Was using it for plains game so no issues. Was readily fixed with a cleaning, but you could not pay me, pace JPK, to have a DGR double in a rimless cartridge.

That possiblility has me keeping an eye on the paws, and keeping them clean. But then, if the rifle were for a rimmed cartridge, I wouldn't do any more or less cleaning.

Recall, I bought the rifle with the idea of rechambering it to 450NE, but was talkied out of it by all of our favorite double gun maker, JJ Perrideoux.

JPK

I have handled JPK's double just after JJ had finished test firing it.

It had worked perfectly.

Why fix it if it ain't broke???

Besides we need somebody to "test the envelope" for us.

And JPK has done the test well, as he has taken the 458 Double up close and personal to the Elephant.

My Gravex copy of an H & H royal deluxe uses the ejector system described above.

if Holland & holland decided to use it that is good enough for me, despite all the know - it - alls
and naysayers.

Their comments are soley theoretical or something they read.

they have NO EXPERIENCE with the system at all !