Afternoon Gentlemen, I have a question and maybe you can help me discern what I am looking at here. First off I do not want this to turn into a fight over what type of rifles sucks and what does not.

I was at my local gun shop today admiring a Sabatti 450 400 3 inch that they have sitting on the rack. I was told to steer clear of this particular rifle because it will not regulate and not really knowing what that was I said okay and put it back. After reading the forms here I understood what kind of issues some Sabatti's have had. I also had a Merkel 140-2 compare it too. I noticed something odd with the Sabatti's muzzle so I took a picture of it. Can someone explain to me what I'm seeing here? I see the crowns of the barrels are not round. Is this normal in the Double world...is it me, is it Sabatti. Please educate me.

Thanks
Curtis

It appears that the rifle you are looking at is one of the Sabatti's that has ground muzzles. Sabatti was taking short cuts to regulate their rifles instead of doing it properly. I don't believe you would be happy with it. Some of the newer Sabatti's don't have the grinding of the muzzles and are "supposed" to be worth the money. Bear in mind, you get what you pay for.

Some Sabatti rifles are fine. As to the example in the photo here: it's a POS and stay away from it!
Cal
PS. Email me this photo for my files, please.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Some Sabatti rifles are fine. As to the example in the photo here: it's a POS and stay away from it!
Cal
PS. Email me this photo for my files, please.

Email sent!

That's the one at GNG isn't it? That was one of the early attempts Sabbati tossed out to speed up production for the Cabellas contract.
The current ones with an X infront of the serial number are appearantly properly regulated.

What caliber are you looking for? Hammer or boxlock? Big or smaller?

Awww man!! That ain't nothing a little JB Weld won't fix... that and a new set of barrels.

What is the price?

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
What is the price?

The guy is holding firm at $5900

That's more than the new sale price from Cabellas!
The owner is that fat shyster lawyer that used to do a bunch of TV adverts..

Yikes; I was going to say get it for 2500 are re-regulate it correctly. After crowning. But now, walk away.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yikes; I was going to say get it for 2500 are re-regulate it correctly. After crowning. But now, walk away.

What would a cut and re-crown/regulate job coast on that critter?

Alaskaman

It's not just the crown, the "dremelling"
goes into the barrel.

DR's aren't like Bolt actions, it's a bit harder
to chop off an inch or two although it can be done.

If you want a Sabatti, buy a new production one.

I thought one fella re-regulated starting at $750. As regulating would involve unsoldering the barrels I wouldn't expect that cutting and moving things back a bit would add much. But that is starting at $750. When I bought my 450/400 Cabelas-Buda had a beautiful Sabatti in 470 NE for &2995 with dremel'ed muzzles. Boy that was tempting but to me it just isn't worth it to go there. The fact that this guys is asking almost new price makes it an obvious NO.

Your next question was why was Cabela's selling a dremel'ed Sabatti if they make them right. Good question. They said the 47o NE had been sent to Sabatti once and fixed yet still had the dremeling. IF it is not a new gun with a good warranty to back it up forget it. At least Cabela's has given full refunds. If you buy this and drop $1500 to get it to work and it still isn't to your liking...

I was thinking if I could get it for say 1500 bucks then do the work.....YOu know, its not even worth kicking over that possible Hornet's nest. JUst need to save my pennys and do it right!

IMO, the name “SABATI” and the word “REGULATION” do not belong in the same book, or on the same page much less in the same sentence unless things have changed drastically!

As Cal says some have gotten Sabattis that shoot at least acceptably but any Sabatti that is regulated so it shoots properly was an accident, not skill.

JIG and grinding is not a proper way to regulate a double rifle, it simply doesn’t work very often.

Sabatti tried to regulate the double rifles the way they regulate shotguns, and it simply didn’t work. A very large number of shotgun makers regulate by using a JIG system with a laser in each barrel.

They clamp the shotgun barrels in the JIG and adjust the convergence of the barrels till both lasers cross by about one inch on the same elevation on a target 35 yds away, then grind a spacer that fits between the two barrels and solders it in place. This works, at least acceptably, for a shotgun, but is an exercise in futility and a waste of time, solder and ammo in a rifle.

This sounds like a simple way to regulate a rifle as well,but isn't and it works OK most of the time on a shotgun that only requires the two shot patterns superimpose a 30 inch pattern of both barrels at 35 yds. This however doesn’t work on a double rifle, which requires a far more precise regulation to form a proper composite group that will sustain its integrity at fairly long range and produce a workable composite group of both barrels at 100 yds, and even out to a couple hundred yards with hold over. I don’t think anyone would want a double rifle that placed a bullet from each barrel someplace inside a 30 inch circle!

The Sabatti was an exercise in futility to attempt to produce a double rifle for under $5K by cutting cost to the bone. The problem is they tried to cut cost in the place that makes a double rifle work properly, and instead of getting a good rifle they only dressed a pig in lace, instead of making a working rifle that would at least hit the walls of a barn from the inside with the doors all closed.

When the found that the jig so-called regulation didn’t work, they tried to salvage the barrels by using a Dremel tool to grind one side or the other of the rifling away in each barrel to cause the bullets to YAW in attempt to fix the regulation rather than separating the barrels and properly regulate EACH rifle as an individual. Once the barrels have been screwed up with the grinder it would involve separating the barrels and cutting them back to clean rifling and regulating them properly.

I for one wish this had not happened, because it would have put a lot more young guys in the hunting fields with double rifles, but instead it made many afraid to buy another brand after getting one of the dogs from Sabatti!

....................................................................

I meant "cutting off the damaged portion of the muzzle, then crowning". We need to end this thread; all has been hashed over MANY times before. My Sabatti is still a very accurate and well regulated rifle and well worth the money.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I meant "cutting off the damaged portion of the muzzle, then crowning". We need to end this thread; all has been hashed over MANY times before. My Sabatti is still a very accurate and well regulated rifle and well worth the money.

Disagree. The OP asked about regulation and about a Sabatti he was interested in. He has since learned the asking price is outrageous and then learned more about how some of these rifles were built on the cheap. Thread has nothing to do with you or your Sabatti.

Guys, its not my intention to get a turd flinging contest going. I understand that some people have received Sabatti's that shoot like a house of fire, You know thats great! Some are turkeys... Well i guess that not ok. Here is my opinion, if they shoot, then they are a great rifle for the price. For me personally, I would not make my first one a Sabatti because one is not sure what your going to get. Where is if I choose a manufacturer like Chapuis, I know for sure that the rifle will A) fit me, I can send in my measurements. B) Shoot.. After I have one or two of these rifles, I see no problem going out and experimenting with a Sabatti. To be perfectly honest, I love the notion of what Sabatti stands for. Not everybody can go out there and afford a 10,000 20,000 or $50,000 double life. We all very well know that there are many people out there who would love to shoot and own a double rifle, but due to their educational or their work background won't ever be able to. Sabatti brings that to them. I commend them for at least attempting to bring a rifle in at a price point that they did.

And with that I consider this post closed, you can keep commenting on it after this I don't mind, but I am finished.

AKman11:
I'm free this weekend. Want to drive up and see a few doubles from .400 to .600 and with a couple of 8s and 4s thrown in for good measure?
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
AKman11:
I'm free this weekend. Want to drive up and see a few doubles from .400 to .600 and with a couple of 8s and 4s thrown in for good measure?
Cal

AKman that is a good opportunity to handle some REAL double rifles! If I were you I'd not miss this chance. Cal has some real big bores and will be of great help to you in your quest for the REAL hunting rifle!
........................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
AKman11:
I'm free this weekend. Want to drive up and see a few doubles from .400 to .600 and with a couple of 8s and 4s thrown in for good measure?
Cal

Cal, I would love too, the darn wife has a list a mile long for honeydo's I want to take a rain check for a few weeks but yes, I want to do that very much!

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Some Sabatti rifles are fine. As to the example in the photo here: it's a POS and stay away from it!
Cal

Gee, Cal, don't hold back. No need to sugar coat it. Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

We'll regulate our rifles to shoot "spread of breach" at 50yds/ parallel. Slightly closing a few thousanths is okay. If a customer specifies something else we will do it.

quote:

We'll regulate our rifles to shoot "spread of breach" at 50yds/ parallel. Slightly closing a few thousanths is okay. If a customer specifies something else we will do it.

Aaron, what kinds of rifles are you regulating are they your own built rifles or customers rifles that you regulate?

Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best

I just read on another post that you work with Bailey. I guess that answers my previous post.


Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best