I had a chance to pick up this one with 26 inch barrels and think it might be a way to get the .45-90 double that I wanted by merely extending the chambers by .3 inch. This would allow use of .45-70 or .45-90 ammo as I do in my 1886 .45-90 for which I have brass, bullets, etc. It is from the estate of Bob Hynden who made my Simson .405 WCF double; this .45-70 was his personal hunting rifle. Bob finished the rifle in 2008 and posted details and pix on Nitro Express and that thread contains much detail for the Pappas Provenance Document which I have just begun. Also, as more details such as measurements and trigger pull come available they will be added.

One of the interesting features is the circa 1964 Beretta GR 2 action with coin finish, double coin triggers, extractors, and 3 point lockup (two under lugs plus Greener cross bolt). At my request, Beretta USA emailed the user manual PDF for the GR 2 to me!
Plus cocked hammer indicators and articulated front trigger.
Plus American made 26 inch McGowen barrels. My Simson .405 also has McGowen barrels and they are accurate.
Plus Leupold variable 1-4 shotgun scope regulated at 75 yards with Remington 300 grain bullets that print a R and L in one inch.
Plus very nice wood and checkering with cheek piece, thick recoil pad, and ¾ inch sling swivels for European style sling.
Plus Anson release of nicely checkered semi beavertail fore end.
Plus 100 rounds hand loaded ammo, 100 primed brass, and dies.
Plus a "yuuuge" two- rifle aluminum travel case. I may want a takedown case later; right now I can tote it about in a scoped rifle leather case.

The rifle has been hunted but looks to be in very good condition with only one minor stock ding which Jeff W can surely fix. I had it shipped to nearby Armadillo Gun Range and dealer and I photographed it and picked it up
yesterday.


It is interesting how different the wood looks in the gun shop fluorescent light and the natural light photos made by the seller.
I plan to go back to the range soon for test firing. If it shoots as advertised, it will be fun.

I love it.

That will be a useful and entertaining double!

Cr.
Congrats on a fine rifle, Santa someday will bring me one in 45-110

Congratulations! Welcome to the DRSS!

Congrats
I'm glad that you were able to pick up another of Bob's top notch conversions. I really haven't been by the forum much since he died but I'm glad I did stop in. Thanks for the pictures

Glad you stopped by also.
I thought about calling you when driving through Corpus lately after hunting the YO Ranch.
Naturally, we were late to get to Rockport and had to head back to the DFW area the next day, but I do remember that Corpus has changed a lot since I was there for semester break from UT decades ago.
I missed the cutoff that by passes the city on the northeast and drove the expressway right through town , including the "new" high bridge eastbound. That made me concentrate, but at least it gave us a good view of the aircraft carrier docked there.

What have you shot with your .45-120 so far?

Eleeton,
also, that rascal kept the Beretta rifle a secret for 10 years after his initial post on it!
He and I discussed my wanting a .45-90 double many times and had actually agreed upon a Merkel donor just before he finished your 45-120; he never suggested that I buy his Beretta 45-70 ! Knowing he used the Beretta as personal hunting rifle helped me decide to buy it. Man, what a slick action! As smooth as my Parkers!

No, Bob did not keep it a secret.

Transvaal,
That was said in jest, but in fact it was unknown to me until very recently. He and I exchanged many emails before and after I purchased his .405 WCF double in December 2015.
When I became aware of the Beretta double this month, I did locate his original 2008 post on the rifle and have saved it for the provenance.

Do you know about the O/U double rifle Bob made using a Ruger O/U shotgun action?

quote:

Originally posted by Transvaal:
Do you know about the O/U double rifle Bob made using a Ruger O/U shotgun action?

O/U ? I am all ears,what caliber?

T - Ruger? I have read every NE post by Bob for the past 15 years in the last couple of weeks and vaguely remember a Ruger being mentioned, but do not remember any details or who wrote the post. Good news is that I learned a lot from the research.

I am now shutting down for the night after several hours working on the provenance document and my eyes are too tired to do any more tonight. Provenance almost done though.
GOOD NEWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However, I finally translated Bobs hand written notes on converting Beretta factory proof chamber pressure to breech pressure and then applying that to .45-70 specs and back to a calculated maximum chamber pressure in the Beretta for the .45-70. Looks like good math and a strong action!

Tomorrow I will copy those hand written notes to a Word doc and recalculate all numbers to confirm my findings.

Just completed the Provenance document with pix and a few new notes as follows:

Muzzles crowned with slight chamfer at bore.
Trigger pull the same on both triggers at 3 pounds 6 oz.
Tang safety is also coin finish.
Proofed to a max of 44,000 psi, but significant velocity of 300 and 400 grain bullets can be reached at less than 40,000 psi.
LOP = 14.25 inches
Balance one inch forward of hinge pin
Stock is exhibition grade curly Bastogne walnut


So enough technical details! The rain has broken the heat wave and I plan to go to the range ASAP and see if it shoots as well as advertised.

Bob and I were double rifle maker friends and shared our experienced with each other for many years and I remember your Simpson. Some weeks Bob and I might talk several times during the week and sometimes for hours.

Bob liked the Beretta actions with the Greener cross bolt a great deal as do I; and I like the Brno ZP actions very much. Bob did not like working with the Brno actions very much and after building a DR on one he said that they were too much trouble for him and he would not build another DR on a Brno action.

Bob and I had different opinions on how much chamber pressure should be used to test fire a newly built DR, and he believed that 125% of the SAAMI service pressure was enough. In my case I used a greater pressure, as you never know what some shooter is going to do with a DR later on and in the case of the rifle below my grandson after I die.

Unless you have absolute proof in the form written notations of the actual propellant brand, type and charges along with the bullet brands, diameters lengths, weights and COAL, I find it hard to believe that Bob would have test fired a 28,000 psi service load cartridge at 44,000 psi (155% overload). I remember quite vividly how disturbed he was when I told him that I was going to test fire a double rifle I had built in .38-55 (Heavy) at a chamber pressure of 54,000 psi. Of course as Bob did I have a fixture to test fire remotely.

Transvaal,
Thank you for the background information.

Two things on proof firing my two doubles:
1. For the Simson .405, Bob did provide information on the service load and the proof load. His service load was a bit less than the Hornady factory 300 grain loads which are 2225 fps. I had the rifle re-regulated with those Hornady factory loads. All has gone well and the rifle shoots two rights&lefts into a one inch circle at 50 yards.
I have also loaded 400 grain ammo at 2040 fps and was approaching good regulation when Woodleigh bullets ran out. I am optimistic that this 400 grain project will turn out well when I get back to it. Pressures using N133 are down around 30,000 psi.

2. With the Beretta GR2 based .45-70, Bob may not have intended to sell it as only the mild service load data is available in load records and on the barrel flats; 300 grain Remington JHP at 1542 fps. A light load, but plenty strong for deer.

Marie was able to locate for me Bob's one page of notes where he calculated the chamber pressure for the GR2 action in the .45-70 rifle. This was probably before the conversion and the document is not dated.
In essence, he began with the Beretta proof pressure of 17,637 psi and used the 12ga case size and an available equation to calculate the proof pressure on the breech to be 10,600 pounds. He then used the .45- 70 case specs to calculate the area (fraction of square inch) of pressure on the breech when firing the .45-70. Finally,beginning with 10,000 psi (which placed 2375 pounds pressure on the breech), he began multiplying increasing pressure values against that fraction of square inch until he reached 28,000 psi which placed 6650 pounds pressure on the breech.
The last result was less than the breech pressure of 10,600 pounds of the Beretta proof load and he highlighted this.
I concluded that he reasoned that he could safely load .45-70 to 28,000 psi and stay well under the Beretta proof pressure.

I then used his approach to continue the pressure progression calculations until reaching the breech pressure of the Beretta proof load and assumed that the matching chamber pressure of 44,000 psi should be the maximum proof chamber pressure of the action with the .45-70 cartridge in this rifle.

I you are interested, I can email to you the photo of the one page of Bob's hand written calculations and my few pages of work in a Word document. Maybe you could confirm where Bob or I succeeded or erred.

Meanwhile, I plan to shoot some of Bob's mild hand loads to see how it groups.

First trip to the range -REPORT:
Very slick action and trigger pull and surprising little recoil for a .45-70.

Learning the rifle led to a few initial large groups, but ended with a R&L groups of 2 inches at 50 yards and the same at 100 yards.
Right eye pink eye necessitated 1/2 right handed AND 1/2 left handed shooting. Lefty groups were off to the right a few inches but all the last half of shots were within minute-of-deer accuracy. Lets go hog hunting!

Study of the targets when back home showed that the rifle is accurate, but I was not. Going back as soon as weather cools below 100 F and new eye drops clear up shooting eye.

This gun is a shooter & keeper,2"@100 yrds is excellent

Be certain to disinfect the eyepiece of your Beretta .45-70 rifle scope before you use it again if you have had pink eye.

Congratulations CS. Good looking double it is!!.

I would leave it as it is in .45-70Gov`t if it was me who owned this rifle. Get a .450Nitro one day and skip all the middlemen(calibers). If its shoot as good as you have seen its a winner already.

Thanks gents for the kind comments.

Transvaal -thanks for your cleaning suggestion- I just did that before putting it back into the safe.

BTW, I bought and read the Ellis Brown book on turning double shotguns into double rifles and found it interesting and educational. I also found on page 9 the equations Bob used to translate the Beretta proof pressure into .45-70 pressure.
I accepted Mr. Brown's invitation to attend the 5th and last day of his class at the gunsmith school in Tishomingo, Oklahoma the first week of October. I will take both Hynden double rifles to complement Ellis's display rifles before the class gets to shoot his rifles.
We are also planning a hog hunt the next day at a nearby hunting preserve. Should be fun.
I will plan to post a report with pix.

Tishmingo, Ok brings back bad memories to me of 1998 and later when I attended classes there taught by the late English gunsmith Jack Rowe. My stay at a local "motel" there was some of the worse that I have ever experienced and could only be described as a flea bag experience. You should try to find a bed and breakfast or something like that in or near Tishmingo.

Transvaal- Whoa, who said I plan to spend the night? A failure to communicate - my fault.

I live in Texas, north east of Dallas, just 90+ miles south of Tishomingo, so that is an easy 1.5 hour drive up AND another drive back in one day.
The hunting property is 20 some miles this side/south of Tishomingo. I sometimes hunt there 2-3 times per year and have done so for 15 years.

A group of Dallas Woods and Waters Club guys have been hunting there for 15-20 years and most drive 20 to 50 miles more each way than I have to.

Besides, the owner will let us use the preserve hunting cabin for free if we like, but that has not been necessary.