I have been shooting the new VC 500 NE. I have shot somewhere in the range of 225 times. I really like it and am extremely confident at this point. I have a few matters about it on my mind and would appreciate comments. These are as follows:

1- I find the recoil quite tolerable except one place, my middle finger on my trigger hand. I have managed to get it banged up pretty badly close to the knuckle. Perhaps I have shot it too much. The last range trip I fired 20 reduced loads and 10 full loads. I should add that I am shooting 2 rounds quickly. Perhaps a 1 second lag between the two.

I have a pretty bad bruise at minimum. My girl friend is a hand surgeon. I don't like to see the looks on her face when she inspects the finger. It also appears to be hitting right on a blood vessel. Needless to say, I do not need to break the vessel.

I am going to buy this rubber device to attach to the bank of the trigger guard from NECG. Has anyone ever tried one of these? Do they work? Do they stay on?

I am of the opinion to shoot without one while actually hunting. I can't see me shooting several times in short order like I would on the range. Thoughts?

2- It seems to me that while sweating profusely when hunting in the heat, the gun could take a beating on the blued surfaces. I hate to wear gloves when it is over 100 degrees outside. This is the only thing that I can think of to protect these surfaces. Does anyone have a better idea to protect the gun?

3-To be completely honest, my eyes are such that I can't see the normal front sight. I have been shooting with the night site popped up. I have thought about putting bright fingernail polish on the back of the regular bead. Has anyone ever tried this? Did it pose any problems with the use of the night site?

4- I am not one to practice on paper targets. I have largely been shooting clay pigeons, Ritz crackers, old pieces of fruit, etc. I have been extremely please with the results. Actually, I would say ecstatic is more like it. For the most part, I am shooting at 45-50 yards. If I do not actually hit the target, I am really close, usually close enough to make the target move.

I am doing this all with the night bead. I have concerns that the size of the bead will cover too much of the target when shooting an elephant or buff. I have a Doktor Optik which has yet to be mounted as I do not have the base yet.

I am less than 60 days away from departing for Botswana. During that time, I have 10 days in Argentina shooting birds. I have extensive business travel before I leave. I wonder about the time to adjust myself to the Doktor Optik. For those who have a DO, has it been much of an adjustment to change from the open sites to the DO?

5- I have posted elsewhere about the weight of the trigger. Mine are too high. Given the relatively little time that I have and all of my trips for both business and hunting, I have to wonder if I should just hold off on having them adjusted for know. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Thanks all!

Larry,

Regarding Q1, here are some pictures of a finger guard that I bought a long time ago. I had two and lost one, sadly. They are made of sorbothane with elastic. You slide them on your middle finger. They work great. I tried one of the rubber bumpers and was not impressed. They are made of hard rubber and not much better than the trigger guard. If we could find someone to make some these sorbothane guards, I would buy a dozen. They are wonderful. I have not been able to find them for years on the web.

Re 5

If your triggers are set to heavy and it is making you jerk or shoot off, then I would get them lightened.

That's just my HO as getting used to lighter triggers doesn't or shouldn't take you long - both mentally and physically (ie muscle memory).

.

Mike:

Thanks. I am told that there is something similar to your pad that is used subsequent to certain type of hand surgery. I am getting various of these items this week. If they work, I will forward info on where to get them.

Gloves will actually take the finish off a gun faster than a sweaty bare hand. Dirt will get into the pores of a leather glove creating an abrasive service that will chew up the bluing. You can put butchers wax on the receiver but as far as the barrels go wipe them down at the end of the day if they start to wear call it character, memories or get them re-blued...

Switching from iron to the Doc Optik is not bad and won't take much time to get used to. With the relatively short turn around time till safari and your previous commitments, I would be wary of changing anything last minute. Your confidence is high already as you're comfortable shooting, why not wait until after this safari for the changes? The triggers can't be too horrible (causing you to jerk them) or I suspect you would have addressed this sooner than now. The larger bead just means more coverage at further yardages - limit shot distances - 50 yards with iron sights for DG is pretty much a maximum limit anyway.

Larry,
Sounds like things are going well with that double-just need a few minor tune-ups.

1) Try concentrating on a vice-like grip on the wrist - I'm betting you're not gripping it tightly and in recoil it's slipping in your hand and bashing your middle finger. Retreever suggested those grip strengthening things (look like big clothes pins);

2) I wouldn't worry about the bluing too much. Just wipe it down at the end of the day. I carried the Rem Wipes in the little individual pouches for just that purpose;

3) Nail polish? You'll have to ask Biebs - he's the expert. Seriously, as long as its a thin coat I can't see it as a problem but ...

4) Just use the night bead. If you can regularly hit clay pigeons and Ritz crackers at 50 yards I'd say youre good enough to go

If you can get the triggers done with time to spare, do so. Otherwise I wouldn't chance it

3

Larry,
my finger used to get banged up pretty good shooting my Heym 470,I tried the two devices mentioned here already,one slips on the trigger guard and the second on the finger,just could not get used to either,although they helped the problem,holding the gun tight at the wrist is a good suggestion,but what really cured the problem for me was holding the gun tight at the wrist and pulling it tight into my shoulder more so than when I shoot bolt actioned rifles,this way you do not allow the gun to move backwards under recoil and bang your finger,I will shoot a lot of full house loads now,sometimes with more than one DR at the range and do not have a banged up finger.
Re-the dokter sight,it will take you far less time to get used to it then what it took you to get used to your iron sights,I have the dokter sights set up on all my big bore DRS,very quick and easy to use,I have hunted cape buff twice now,used the dokter optic both times,it's perfect for low light conditions as well.

Larry,
I have a Sabatti. It has a larger bead than many but I still used white paint on the front bead and it is much easier for MY eye to pick up. I have used it on teo eles and it works fine, Hope this helps. You will get some wearing of the blue on the barrels if you use the African carry, not much you can do about that but use a sling.

Blue wear will prove you have "seen the elephant" and will be part of the gun's history when you tell your great grand kids about your African exploits way back in '12. Don't worry about it. Worry about hitting a vital spot the first shot.

Larry, I have heard of others having an issue with the middle finger getting banged up on the trigger guard. I haven't experienced this myself but HAVE had my knuckle on the trigger finger get cut on the front trigger when firing the rear trigger. That is an indication of the LOP being too short. I'm not sure if the short LOP will cause the issue with the middle finger as well. Have you checked the LOP and how it fits you on this rifle. Remember that I tried to purchase your rifle from Ken and Jerome at SCI but they wouldn't sell it to me because the LOP was shorter than what they could easily correct for me. I'm using 15 & 1/2" LOP now and still get smacked every once in awhile. Maybe try a slip on pad that adds about 1" of LOP and see what that does for you. They should be easy to find and its a cheap, easy, and quick way to test the solution. We can take a look at it next month while we are at the range.

I don't particularly like gloves either but for hot weather and especially shooting doubles, I wear half gloves like these:


They are padded in the palm and breath with the "net" type back. They help with crawling in brush or hot sand, keep at least SOME of the sweat off the barrels using the African Carry, and give a bit of protection to the knuckle for the issues you raised in Question No. 1. Mike's pad looks OK too but I wonder if it is too large to be comfortable wearing all day? What do you say Mike? Does it get in the way after awhile or do you just slip it on when the stalk gets serious? Having that finger pad I would think you are having the same issue as Larry?

Larry, if you are shooting OK with the triggers as they are now, I'm thinking you might want to just wait until you return from your trip. That's just me but I hate to mess with too many changes right before a hunt, especially if I have to send my rifle off somewhere! I'm always afraid of getting it back and finding something that was working fine got messed up while the problem was being corrected. Then there is not enough time to be sure all has been wrung out.

We'll work on that finger issue a bit and try to get it figured out prior to your trip.

I own a couple of .500 revolvers and would usually end up with a cut on my trigger finger because it hits the trigger guard.

Simple and cheap fix is to use one or two bandaids wrapped around the finger where it hits. Just put the pad on the spot that gets all the attention. When you are done shooting toss the bandaids.

Other than that continue to practice and just protect that finger. When you finish your hunt there is plently of time to get the triggers done and the new sight installed.

Besides, when you come home you will already be thinking or ordering another double

Enjoy the hunts, wish you well.

Larry:
Gloves are too hot unless it is 10F or colder. The rubber backing on the trigger guard will help but I think they are made for shotguns. I agree with the gent who suggested a tighter grip. I've been shooting my .600 Wilkes every day and depart for Australia tomorrow. When I relax my grip my middle finger gets banged up, when I have a good tight grip (necessary for a .600) my finger is ok.

Some folks use nail polish. I use white out and have a small container with me on this trip. My eyes, too, are getting old and I am trying to teach myself to concentrate on the target, and when the blurry white bead (bigger with the white out) hits the bottom of the V I'm set to fire. The white out dries to a gob between the sizes of the bead and the night sight.

Whoops, for your finger, the drug store carries small bandages for corns on one's toes. They may work by slipping over the finger.

Your girl friend can amputate.....

Good luck and cheers,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Mike's pad looks OK too but I wonder if it is too large to be comfortable wearing all day? What do you say Mike? Does it get in the way after awhile or do you just slip it on when the stalk gets serious?

I just use it when shooting at the range. In the field you are only shooting occasionally and it is usually not enough to make your finger sore. I only have the problem with certain rifles, but at the range I generally wear the finger guard to shoot any of the doubles.

I think I am guilty of a few things with respect to shooting the 500.

1- I have increased the number of full power loads I shoot each session from 4 to 10.

2- I am not holding the rifle as tight as my confidence has increased.

This has no doubt caused my finger to get banged up.

Larry, as others have stated here, I can also validate the tight grip procedure. My VC 450 is not a problem at all and I've also fired my friend's VC 500 with no issues. jorge

Mike:

I got several things to slip over my finger today. I think they will work.

There is some sort of elastic cloth that covers some silicone gel. Not sure how durable they are. They will no doubt work.

I am on a plane. Will take pics when I get back.

Thanks Larry, I would love to see them. I worry that I will lose the one I have and regardless of whether I need it or not in reality, I perceive that I need it and that is all that counts.

Mike,

Does your middle finger get whacked by all of your doubles or just certain ones? I'm wondering if the type of grip, being "open" or "closed" might have something to do it.

As stated, I haven't had the middle finger whacked as of yet but I only have the Merkel to date as a hard kicker. Just wondering if the "open" type of grip might position the hand to where it slides forward more under recoil? Seems that a more "open" grip may be harder to hold onto in heavy recoil. The open grip is certainly more pleasing to the eye however, at least in my opinion.

I'm still thinking that a short LOP might have something to do with it though. Larry, If I can find that slip on pad of mine, I'll bring it along.

Different rifles, different results. The worst I had was an older stock style model Heym .470. My middle finger would swell up twice its size after shooting it 8-10 times. The English doubles seem to be less of a problem. I am sure it has something to do with the cut of grip as opposed to me not gripping the rifle well hence the reason why it is a problem with some and not others.

It only bothers me with the front trigger. I need to clamp down on it with my right hand.

I am traveling on business. Mary Lynn had them when she picked me up. She says they were "less than $5."

When I get back, I will post a picture.

One other comment. This did not happen my first couple of trips to the range. I think I had more of a death grip on the gun then. I was not as confident. As confidence increased, I think I relaxed my grip. I may be wrong. I was once part of an experiment involving pure grip strength. My grip strength is really good for my size and age . I work out 2-3 hours a day before I go to work. I do not think grip strength is the problem .

In addition, as practice in changing triggers , I am shooting 2 shots back to back really quickly.

I think these 2 things have caused the problem . What really scares the hell out of me is that I am getting whacked right on top of a blood vessel. Rupturing the vessel can't be good, especially in the middle of no where.

Damn, I love my Rifles,Inc 416. I have killed a lot of critters with it. I never dreamed that I would enjoy a double so much nor that I would feel as confident with it.

In a few weeks I have invited some people down to hunt hogs with me. I hope to christen it there. I have given that hunt the name "Big Boars with Big Bores."

I keep thinking about last year in Zim following a wounded leopard . Damn I would have felt a hell of a lot better with the 500 NE than I felt with that scoped rifle .

I had the same problems with my Chapuis and started conciously holding tighter and pulling the rifle back into my shoulder the slam went away most of the time. When I got the Searcy it went away for good. The extra bit of LOP was the key along with the better technique.
I like the Leupold dot on the chapuis and at 50 yards it is faster than the open sight. With the Searcy which has a larger, flatter sight the front rests more quickly and I feel more confident holding tight at up to 100 yards.

Hi Larry
I have a merkel 140 in 470 nitro that just eats me a live, my 470 barousse has a slight palm swell and I can hold onto it better. My 505 gibbs has a palm swell and cause me no problem at all. I have some nerve damage to my right hand and loose grip strength as I squeeze tighter. The merkel is just to narrow for me to grip with my problem ( just my luck because it's also my best shooter). the 505 has the more comfortable grip and even at full house loads, it does not hit my finger, it wacks everything else though with 525ftx and 150 grs of powder. Work on grip strength and make sure you lop is long enough.

JD

Larry, don't worry about the bluing. Try and be somewhat careful but if the bluing gets thin or there is a ding here or there, don't let it ruin your trip. If you can afford to shoot all that factory ammo, you can afford new bluing . I plan to take my V-C's to Zim next February in the shittiest of weather with showers and humidity.

If I were you, I would send the gun to JJ just prior to my departure to Argentina. Have him adjust the triggers (with no creep) and install the Docter Optic. While he has it, round the heel of the pad if you have not done so. Have him ship it out one day prior to your arrival back in the US. Hence, no time lost. I emailed JJ this morning asking him to order the Docter Optic base for my V-C's .392" wide rib. He said it would take him one day to install after he gets the parts.

PS, email just received from JJ. He has a "shipment of bases on the way".

That is good news Don. He has had the mounts ordered for quite a while.

When I landed from Boston, I had to come straight to the office. These "pads" are at my house. Sorry, no picture tonight.

I questioned Mary Lynn about them. All these pads are is some type of bunion pad commonly available at Walgreens. They look a bit like a part of an ACE bandage that has been made into a ring. On one side , there is some silicone gel that I estimate is 3/8ths of an inch thick. These are easy to get & inexpensive. I think they will work. How long they will last is anyone's guess. Given the cost & availability, I really would not care if these wear out every single trip to the range.

Sorry for the lack of pictures. I have to head to Boston again. I won't be back to my house until Saturday.

LARRY,

This problem is likely related to your problem with high volume bird shooting. You need to reprogram your mind to take a much tighter shooting grip. That will take a lot of repitition.

465H&H

I agree completely.