Gentlemen, I am looking to get a little higher grade the the general makes often spoken of here. What do you guys think of these makers. They all seem to be available for under 40K or therabouts. I really like the Jeffrey site and hope to see them at the convention. Just wanted to get opinions. thanks


JP

I would also look at Fanzoj, Hofer, and Hambrusch as they probably fit into that group (althogh Hofer is probably at the top end).

JPaul:

Because of the price mentioned, we're speaking of boxlocks here, so a little background.

In the heyday of the nitro double rifle (late 1890s to WWII), The London trade did not make boxlocks, especially double rifles. They'd have gone broke. They had them made for them by DR specialists in the Birmingham trade. Most of Rigby's were made by Webley (also Holland's, William Evans', Army & Navy's, etc.). These were fine rifles. W. J. Jeffery & Co. made no guns at all, they were all made for them by others. Most of Jeffery's double rifles were made by the great Harry Leonard in Birmingham. Also fine rifles.

Today, the gigantic Birmingham gun trade is dead, and London must go elsewhere for boxlocks and there isn't much choice, which is why most London makers don't offer them anymore.

J. Roberts & Son bought Rigby in 1984 and built Rigby double rifles on copies of the Webley A & W action bought in from A & S Famars in Italy. In 1997, Paul Roberts sold Rigby to an American. The new California Rigbys (commonly referred to as "Mexican Rigby's) are nothing like the late British guns. They're built on Merkel 20 gauge actions with monobloc barrels. They're trading entirely on the Rigby name. Merkel double rifles are built in house on their own actions with shoe lump barrels. They're better guns than the Rigby and cost a great deal less. I've handled a few of these American Rigbys and, money completely aside, I'd rather have the Merkel.

The original Jeffery firm ceased to trade in the mid-50s and was bought out by Malcolm Lyell's Westley Richards Agency, which was, in turn, merged with Holland & Holland in 1960. A wealthy Texan bought the Jeffery name and records from Holland and leased the rights to the use of the name to Paul Roberts (J. Roberts & Son), former owners of Rigby. The new W. J. Jeffery double rifles are nothing at all like the original Jeffery's, I own a Leonard built gun and prefer it. The pre-war Rigby's were built by Webley mostly on their A & W Screw-Grip action - I have a Webley built DR as well and like it a lot. The new Jeffery's are like the pre-war Rigby's in that they're built, again, on copies of the Webley A & W Screw-Grip boxlock action bought in from A & S Famars. He may be getting them as barreled actions, but I'm not sure.

The A & S boxlock DR is a really nice rifle, but so is the new Jeffery. They're built on the same action. The last price list I had from A & S a few years ago, the list for a boxlock without the doll's head and screw-grip was $34,000. All of the new Jeffery's I've seen had the screw-grip. Of the two, I lean toward the Jeffery, for no particular reason, but there's nothing wrong with the A & S. I like the Baker extended top strap.

I haven't handled a rifle from Trevor Proctor, but in the photos I've seen, they look good. I hear good things about them. I think I've heard that he is also using the A & S action, but I'm not sure.

I can't help you with the Ferlib. I wasn't aware that they were making DRs, but I suppose it was only a matter of time before they got into the game.

Good luck.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I like FAMARS guns. They build alot of trade actions, but they will build you one great double. There African express will cost around 34,000 for the 450 class doubles. Jeffery will cost you about ~8,000 more for the name. Dennis Fontana(Italy) uses A&S actions he does good work. Zeignhan(sp)(Germany) also builds a nice gun for around 40K. As 500grains said some Ferlach guns are alot of gun for the money. You might want to poke around Shul Germany there are some smaller makers that do nice work. Lebeau-Courally (Belgian) makes a very nice gun, but would be at the top of the 40K range. Grulla (Spain)makes a nice sidelock for under 40K> I think it is just in 470.

I dont know what Trevor charges but I bet it is north of 40K US Rigby (well you make that decision ) Ferlib I know nothing about!

505ED

I think Trevor charges right around 40K for a DR. If you are interested PM me and I will get some more info for you.

Are you only looking for a new gun or would something used be OK... You can get a beautiful DR on the used market for <40K.

Check out http://champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=30

The Holland Royal 465 and the Coggie 475 caught my eye in your price range. Would be worth a call to George if they interest you.

JP

If you would like some info re Trevor Proctor on his double rifles then send me a pm with your email info

Thank you all for the responses.

400NE, I thank you for the history of Jeffrey, very interesting. I still like the Jeffery best even if it started elsewhere. I do like the British style of doubles. I do not know much about Mr Roberts do you think they are worth the asking price? I was thinking of a 400 Jeffery with claw mounts, all up weight under 10 pounds if possible. I have a 470 K-gun and like it very much but it is a bit heavy to carry all day and I believe I would like something with a little more versatility. The 375FL Mag has also crossed my mind, I still have not made up my mind yet

500GR, I have seen a few rifles from the Ferlacher's they have been very nice but I am not really into the style of most of the rifles that I have seen.

505ED, Thanks for the other makers. I also really like the quality of rifles that Famars/A&S make. The ones I have seen are really outstanding. It will be a hard choice if the price for the Jeffery is really 8K more than the A&S with the same action.

Bulldog, I really want a new made rifle. Better steel and so forth. PM sent on Proctor. thanks

Jonathan, Thanks for the offer PM sent

Thanks again for your opinions and help gentlemen.

JP

For 40K in a boxlock, I'd look hard at Ziegenhahn, Trevor Proctor and A&S (in no particular order). Let your prefrence of style and aesthetics direct you the rest of the way.

All are best grade boxlocks with chopper-lump bbls, etc... plus engraving.

I had the pleasure of meet Trevor Proctor in Zambia this year and handled his fine rifles. They are truly wonderful pieces of working art. If I could afford one, there is no doubt I'd have Trevor build one for me.

I would agree with the high regard for FAMARS. I really like their Venus Express. FAMARS (A&S) also does much of the work in making the Beretta 455 double rifle, though it's finished by Beretta. When you look at the two guns, you'll see they are very much alike. You'll see design and features on these two guns that will very much remind you of a Holland & Holland or Purdey.

Mike, thanks for the PM I do not know if I am using it correctly.

400Ne I hope you recieved my PM

Jonathan and Bulldog I hope you guys also recieved PM's

thanks JP

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:


Because of the price mentioned, we're speaking of boxlocks here......[QUOTE]


Why is that so?

About 3yrs ago Famars quoted near $37K for VenusExpressSidelock with highest upgrade wood/ no engraving.
Unless things have dramatically changed in their pricing, I would imagine a sidelock is in his budget. Best way to find out is to send them an enquiry I guess.

JPaul,
I dont know what cal. your after, but just for some styling ideas, have a look at the Mackay Brown round actions.That 9.3x74r is a little gem in my eyes.

http://www.mckaybrown.com/doublerifle.html

quote:

400 Nitro Express: The new California Rigbys (commonly referred to as "Mexican Rigbys")

Hi Guys

Just re-read some of the above mails.

Knowing Trevor Rather well I can advise the group that his actions are made entirely from Phillipsons forgings, they are the makers who provide all the genuine English trade with action forgings, such as H&H and Purdeys. As far as I am aware only Phillipsons remain in the U.K as a provider of forged actions.


The cost today of a forging together with forend iron and tumblers for an Anson and Deeley boxlock is around the £2000 (sterling) mark.

a set of chopper lump barrels oven brazed at the lumps but without ribs having been laid can run anywhere between £2,500 - £3,500 dependant on bore size. These are for unstruck and unfinished tubes simply brazed at the lumps, by the time the ribs have been cut and laid and the sight ribs/ ramps fitted and the hooks and lumps cut the expense becomes considerable.

Trevor uses a third byte on the breach face that is restrained by as sliding bolt operated by a cam from the top lever, this is not the same as a simple barrel extension as it, like those found on H&H and Purdey double rifles, acts as a third locking device.

I do have some pictures on my office PC of such forgings together with chopper lump barrels from Trevor's workshop. Also there are some examples of best quality boxlocks still in the white awaiting stocking but showing the work that goes into the building of a modern boxlcok rifle.


If there wold be interest in having these pictures shown on this thread I will be happy to send them onto any kind forumite who has the technology and understanding of how to post them. This being that case if one of you could send me a pm with your contact e-mail I will send a number of picture files on Monday a.m when I return to my desk.

JT

Jonathan,

You can send them to me. I think you have my email address.

JPaul,

Didn't get your PM but if I were looking at getting a Proctor rifle, Jonathan Tomlinson is the person I would talk to.

Josh

got your pm and have responded, thanks for your help.

Will be in touch Monday.

JT

I've always been impressed by those Beretta doubles. How much are they?

Josh

PM sent

Hi Jonathon, thanks for jumping in here, I look forward to seeing those Pic's!!!