http://www.champlinarms.com/De...StyleID=3&GunID=2093

Looks interesting?

Beautiful engineering, but, at $28.5K I will pass.
Peter.

Interesting. Looks like the action face/firing pins rotate with the barrels??

I have often looked at them over the years and will say that it looks simple and very well designed and built. Compared with other doubles of the same quality it is fairly priced as well.
Without ejectors however I don't think it is a rifle for a PH.

I've seen these in person and they are an engineering marvel; perhaps over-engineered and unnecessarily complex.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I have often looked at them over the years and will say that it looks simple and very well designed and built. Compared with other doubles of the same quality it is fairly priced as well.
Without ejectors however I don't think it is a rifle for a PH.

Agreed! that thing is hell for stout and is certainly well machined, however, I'd hate to have to reload that thing for shots three and four with something closing fast on me. Of course with that chambering about the only thing that you would be in that sittuation with might be the cats, and there speed is even more important but with the cats your not likly to get off shot number three anyway!

If chambered for larger rounds like the 450s or 500s it still wouldn't be my choice, but to those who like unusual rifles this one is very well made and I suppose properly priced.


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I have played with them a few times. Pretty cool but pretty slow to reload.

Great machine work, awesome fit and finish. Very well built rifles, BUT I have to agree with McKay. They are very slow to reload.

The guns are built like the finest swiss watches. I visited with George at SCI and it was fun to see people's reaction to how the guns work. George is among the very best and most capable builders we have ever had, period. He told me he will be making numbers 61-65 this next year. There's nothing like them and no one like George; thats what makes them so neat.

quote:

Originally posted by h2oboy:
Great machine work, awesome fit and finish. Very well built rifles, BUT I have to agree with McKay. They are very slow to reload.

What would you know about quality work anyway? I heard they took your tire iron and Dremel tool away for good this time.

I first met George about 1978. He can imagine things, and then make them. If I owned one, I might practice reloading a few times before I went hunting.

By time anyone I have ever met fires two shots at DG and then has to reload; his ears will be ringing from the shots his PH has fired...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:

By time anyone I have ever met fires two shots at DG and then has to reload; his ears will be ringing from the shots his PH has fired...

Rich, that hasn't been my experience. I've posted a few video clips on AR showing two shots followed by a reload and I've never had a PH fire a shot yet. My buffalo video from this year shows several reloads. If you're talking about reloading while taking a charge, I can see that but not simply putting in a few extra shots.

BTW, it is a very cool looking rifle but seems overly complex to me. Maybe more of a novelty than a hunting arm?

quote:

BTW, it is a very cool looking rifle but seems overly complex to me. Maybe more of a novelty than a hunting arm?

His rifles have taken elephant so people for sure use them. I have seen and heard many stories of folks using them on elk. Let;s not forget, Africa ain't the only place you can shoot a double.

As far as overly complex, when George designed it, he wanted to leave out anything that might be a problem in the future and simplify things so that there is no superfluity. Notice there are always double triggers and there are no ejectors. George told me when he was at Pachmayer, he saw so many failed single triggers and ejector systems that when he decided to build his own they simply wouldn't be on the gun. George puts so much thought into his rifles and executes them to a level of perfection that yo simply do not find anywhere else.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

BTW, it is a very cool looking rifle but seems overly complex to me. Maybe more of a novelty than a hunting arm?

His rifles have taken elephant so people for sure use them. I have seen and heard many stories of folks using them on elk. Let;s not forget, Africa ain't the only place you can shoot a double.

As far as overly complex, when George designed it, he wanted to leave out anything that might be a problem in the future and simplify things so that there is no superfluity. Notice there are always double triggers and there are no ejectors. George told me when he was at Pachmayer, he saw so many failed single triggers and ejector systems that when he decided to build his own they simply wouldn't be on the gun. George puts so much thought into his rifles and executes them to a level of perfection that yo simply do not find anywhere else.

Baxter,

I have to admit that I don't have experience with the design so my opinion is not an informed opinion in this case. On the surface, it doesn't seem to be a rifle I would be interested in. But that could change if demonstrated to be field worthy. Still, it just seems more of a novelty to me, although I can certainly appreciate the mechanical "art work" involved.

Nice to meet you at SCI BTW. Always nice to put a face to a name. Did you have a good time?

Wood to metal fit is excellent and that is important in my book. However, I can't see Sutherland, Taylor, or JA Hunter with this in hand.
Cal

quote:

Wood to metal fit is excellent and that is important in my book. However, I can't see Sutherland, Taylor, or JA Hunter with this in hand.

I agree 100%. Keep in mind the double rifle is just an option for this design, he also build vierings, drillings and combination guns and only in rimmed calibers. he does lots of Krags and has even done at least 2 in 17 HMR. I would have one in 9,3 x 74 and another in 303 British if it were up to me.

So, what about the price? Is $28.5K what they go for new? Hunter may not use one himself, but I think he would have been intrigued if one of his clients showed up with one!
Peter.

I had though most were O/U but it seems this one is SxS.

The last  price I heard from George was 25,000 for a double rifle or shotgun. 50,000 for the vierling.

DR - All of them are O/U, they shoot as O/U and load as S x S.

Who cares what a PH uses or does not use?
Is that a reason to judge anything?

This round action design major lock up components are that difficult to make but the ergonomics of loading and unloading are not so hot.

It was once said we sometimes flaunt our abilities. We are often smart enough to make a bad idea work.

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Who cares what a PH uses or does not use?

Well, I care! Not that their opinion would be the sole determinant, but I suspect that they use their gun quite a bit more often that I do, and hence have pretty valid opinions. I am not aware of any PH's that are paid to use a particular double. They may get a discount however!
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:

quote:

Who cares what a PH uses or does not use?

Well, I care! Not that their opinion would be the sole determinant, but I suspect that they use their gun quite a bit more often that I do, and hence have pretty valid opinions. I am not aware of any PH's that are paid to use a particular double. They may get a discount however!
Peter.

A lot of client hunters can shoot better than their PHs at paper targets, however, when the chips are down and when it is appropriate for the PH to fire his rifle, his long experience with the game animals he guides for, and his long use of his rifle, makes the difference.

Many of the PH’s rifles usually look like it has been drug behind the hunting car, but in my experience most work like quick silver through a tea strainer! Though not rifles I care to own in most cases, most work well when needed.

The type of rifle is usually a bolt rifle of some sort, and in a lot of cases the owner couldn’t tell you if the action is push feed or control feed. Never the less I’d far rather have the PH behind the scruffy rifle, in a crisis, than most client hunters I know with brand new shiny rifles that he has fired maybe 20 times. Then there are few PHs who carry fine double rifles that are very well cared for, and most that I know can shoot them very well.

So I guess what I’m saying is, a PHs opinion on just any rifle you can mention doesn’t impress me much. Most serious shooters I know probably know far more about the important features in a big game rifle than the average PH, especially in regard to double rifles. The PHs who do know a lot about most types of rifles still have to settle for what is available, rather than what they might want to own.
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quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Wood to metal fit is excellent and that is important in my book. However, I can't see Sutherland, Taylor, or JA Hunter with this in hand.
Cal

Sutherland, Taylor and Hunter are all dead --- and so are the great game fields and the Africa they knew.

Which is why so many folks cling to the nostalgic old rifles and cartridges. It is much the same as the east coast buckskinners using flintlock long rifles for deer hunting. Or folks who like old Winchesters & Turnbull restorations, or Sharps re-creations. They were, and still are, valid tools that serve to connect us with the past.

Hendershots has that guns twin for sale for $25K. I guess thats what they go for. Very sleek looking!

We all romanticise a little about our double rifles, If we did'nt we probably would'nt have ever shelled out the big bucks for them.

If you like traditional doubles by the old British makers then a Hoenig probably isn't tne gun for you.

The British by nature are traditionalist while inovation is part of the German mindset. What that means is a gumaker with the German heritage of Mr. Hoenig (althow he is a US citizan) it is in my opinion that that makes it a traditional rifle even though this thing never existed before.
The quality of workmanship is second to none and even though reloading may be a little on the slow side the enginering and desing achive solutions to problems traditional doubles are plaqued with. I don't think this rifle would ever come off face.

I handled one in the past and it felt as though you have to actively hold the gun closed while shouldering it.
It was empty of course, so I have no idea if they close or stay closed more securely when loaded. Doesn't seem like it would make any difference though.
I can imagine, in a DG situation, running after (or away from) a wounded animal with your rifle in your right hand pushing through brush with your left and while pulling up to face the animal you realize in horror that your gun is open and the shells are AWOL!