Pago:

Really, really nice gun. The wood is fantastic and knowing the Searcy reputation, I'll bet it's a real shooter.

I'll also bet that you will quickly get acclimated to the recoil of a 500. Here's my suggestion. Set a couple of water jugs out at 20 yards or so, load two cartridges, throw it up, get your head down really good on the stock, lean into it, and shoot the jugs with a quick right and left. After a few times, it will be a piece of cake.

Good hunting with that wonderful gun....

Dave,
Don't you mean a quick left and right? All my years with handguns have taught me not to get enough purchase on the trigger of a double. I shoot the rear trigger first and don't have to worry about a double dose of recoil.
I'm saving water jugs and will try all of the tips I've been given here. Normally, I am not recoil shy. 45 - 50 rounds off the bench with a .458 lott, 50 rounds off the bench with the .470 but I have not had the time or weather to shoot enough this winter, dang, it snowed on us here yesterday. I did get a chance to torque in 2 of the Remingtons I glass bedded last week and got to sight a new "rat gun" .375 H&H but then the weather turned again and I had to quit before I got to the .500. I've got 5 weeks to get ready and my shoulder will be up to it. I'm just playing for a little sympathy.

Hold yer horses there Rickster! You're one of them there funny types that shoots the rear trigger first.

Oh no! Oh no!

Yes, sir, Mr Williams. I do lots of things backwards. I tried the front trigger first routine with a Merkel, only had it happen twice, the Blaser S2 happened a couple of times and I learned my lesson. I just don't get enough trigger through the trigger guard and that is the most likely thing to happen if I get in a hurry.
I know, I know.....to own a Blaser S2 and to shoot the back trigger first. Beyond help or hope.

Okay guys, what's the cure for strummin the triggers. I say Pago is not holding on tightly enough to his gun and not getting his trigger finger in to the trigger far enough. Gotta get that first finger in up to the first joint and hold on tight to that gun.

A fellow on AR gave me a good suggestion that I have tried a few times for shooting the real kickers. If you are right handed, get the gun snugly into your shoulder and pull the gun tight toward you with your left hand on the forearm and push it away from you with equal force at the wrist with your right. It's like and isometric exercise. It works but I found it hard to master on the quick.

Pago, I love doubles and shoot them when I can but I am no master double rifle hunter like some of these guys. However, I would suggest that in a panic situation, that rear trigger first thing may get you in trouble. Try this again. Get the gun snugly into your shoulder with your head down on the stock, grip it really tight, get your finger into the front trigger all the way up to the first knuckle and shoot that gun as if it were a single trigger. Don't fear the recoil. You've shot it before and you know that gun is not going to hurt you. In fact, get a little pissed off. Squeeze the trigger and hold tight on the gun through the recoil. Make a conscious effort not to let loose of it and then consciously move you finger to the rear trigger after you have recovered from the first shot. You can do it with practice.

Dave,
I have a death grip on the stock with my right hand. I am definitely not holding it too loosely. And I do push away with my Left hand to help. I'm so used to the rear trigger first that if I tried to retrain myself at this point, I'd get myself killed. I have quite a bit of experience with the .470, probably close to 1400 rounds through 2 different rifles and this works for me. Damn little experience with the 500 so far but I shot it again all the way out to 50 and it is definitely minute of buffalo. My muscle memory has alzheimers I think so I will stick with the unconditional style that I'm used to. There are a lot more guys here with WAY more experience than me with doubles, but I have found a comfort zone.

The rifle is nice but the shooter is crap.

Pagosawingnut

That is a fine rifle, thankyou for posting pictures of it so we may enjoy it as well.

I like the way Searcy stocks his Doubles. It reminds me of the old English guns.

Try a load with RL15, it will make a noticeable difference. The load I used on my most recent trip was 98 grains of RL15, F215M primer and 570 grain North Fork FPS and CPS. The North Forks are long enough that no filler is required. Velocity was consistently around 2080 - 2120 fps depending the rifle (Heym vs. Krieghoff). I would at least try a RL15 load to see if you can feel a difference in felt recoil, and whether it shoots okay in your rifle. Beautiful rifle by the way. Congratulations.

Sometimes the rifle does not make the man!

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

Sometimes the rifle does not make the man!

Yep, we've seen your previous "shotgun" groupings

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
I took it out after work and put a few rounds through it. I couldn't hit crap with it and then I figured out I had to keep my eyes open to hit something.
Actually, it shoots very well. I don't think I'm gonna be bench resting this one though. Even weighing at least 11 1/2 lbs, this is a definite step up from the .470 (which I can and do shoot off the bench). Not unpleasant and I didn't cry too much but will take a bunch of rounds to get used to for me. I like it!!! Todd, the load of 110 gr of IMR4831 for regulation, the load of 110 gr of IMR4831 while it puts minor bulges in the cases, it shoots just fine and the bulges straighten right out.

Thanks guys.

That is the hardest kicking load I know of in the .500 NE.

The main reason I stay with 96 gr of R-15.

Pago, I also use RL 15 in my 500. Makes a difference. Any idea of the velocity of your load?

I never could understand the need to increase velocity in the nitro express rifles so they would duplicate the ballistics of the older rifles in much shorter barrels. The .470 is the perfect example. Older 470s never got close to 2150 fps in 24 inch barrels.

Don't pay any attention to George.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:

I know, I know.....to own a Blaser S2 and to shoot the back trigger first. Beyond help or hope.

Next thing you'll be telling us you drive a Ford!

Todd,
Shut up Squid! No sir, I drive a Chevy, HAH!
Dave, I haven't had a chance to chrono it yet with the load. Butch says it is in the 2150 range. And with my prior experience with his loads and velocities, I bet it's pretty close to that. He says his regulation load in the .470 runs 2250 with a 500 gr and 106 gr of IMR 4831. With the Horn, Barnes, Woodleighs, it is in the 2230 range (Chronographed by me with an Oehler) and with the CEB's and the same load, it runs 2253 with the solid and 2296 with the NonCon.
Mike/Dave, My next try is with RL15 to see if I can get it to regulate. I can handle the recoil. Put 20 more rounds through it today and it seems to be shooting easier to me. My shoulder remembers recoil, It's just not wanting it without some more shots. Butch also told me about several other loads that will still regulate and I will try them also. I think he mentioned 96 98 grains of IMR 4350 but I need to go back and check my notes. I still have time but as it is right now, it is minute of buffalo at 50 yards or less. I did notice a marked difference with the Trijicon RMR on it. MUCH, MUCH more accurate. Damn these old eyes and iron sights. I also have some of the lighter CEB's ordered to try. They will be here next week as they had them in stock so I will have to be nice to Todd to get load data.
Dave, I have george on ignore. I don't bother reading the drivel he posts. About the only time i see it is when someone quotes him. It doesn't matter.
I ended up with a 4" group for 8 shots this afternoon offhand at 50 yards. My first shot (Yes Todd, the left barrel) is always where I am looking, the Right is to the right and low but I am pretty sure that is me. I need to put another 200 rounds through this rifle in 5 weeks and should be able to make that shrink. Mike, do you have any idea of the velocity with the 98 grains of RL15? And by the way, you should get onto www.3rdgss.com. They have RL15 for 21. per pound. They don't have the 5 lb cans but they do have over 300 lbs of the 1 pounders. They will only sell you 10 lbs of any one powder but they HAVE it.
Thanks for the advice gents. Ya'll have way more DR experience than I do and don't think I don't appreciate the help
Rick

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
For the money, I don't think you can beat it. It still is a working rifle, barren of engraving and made to fit me. 15 1/4" LOP, provisions for a Trijicon RMR, which I have put on it. Crisp triggers.......
I don't think the recoil is that much different than the .470, just something new and riveting.
Malek, I will not be putting recoil reducers in the stock, or using a magnum sissy pad on my shoulder.(I might be sorry but no)
And I forgot to add, Accurate. While I haven't had the chance to put it on paper yet, the Test Target that Butch sent to me shows 2 groups about 1 1/2" between the bullet holes.

Pego; don’t feel bad, I use the sissy Pad myself shooting my 470 and have no problem admitting it.

As for the recoil deference I am a bit confused, one time you state that it is " Actually, it shoots very well. I don't think I'm gonna be bench resting this one though. Even weighing at least 11 1/2 lbs, this is a definite step up from the .470 (which I can and do shoot off the bench). Not unpleasant and I didn't cry too much but will take a bunch of rounds to get used to for me. I like it!!! ".
Another time you state " I don't think the recoil is that much different than the .470, just something new and riveting."

Now which one is it?


Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best.

Malek,
I would not have any problem admitting to using a sissy pad if I used one either. There is a certain amount of "punishment" that we get used to. I remember when I first got a big bore, a .416 Rem in a Win Mod 70. That damned rifle beat the living hell out of me. The largest caliber I had before that was a .338WM. It took a bit to get used to it and then I got a .375, which I dearly love. Then I got a wild hair and bought a .458 WM. It certainly had more recoil than the .416 but not as....."abrupt" as the .416 After several hundred rounds through the .458, the .416 wasn't so bad and so on. I have moved up in calibers, sometimes not so subtly as I should have, but each time, I get used to it and everything beneath it is now a piece of cake. I have only done the big bores now for 6 years and have reached my limit for accurate shooting with the associated recoil with the .500 Nitro. It doesn't hurt, I'm not afraid of it but don't feel like I need to push it any further. I do feel like the 500 kicks more than the 470 but neither is unpleasant, neither one bruises me or hurts me. The laws of diminishing returns comes to mind. I will try to chrono the regulation load next weekend and post the reports. I'm more interested in regulation. I have always been an accuracy freak and getting used to 1 1/2" groups or 2" is taking some getting used to. Todd, this is for you, By Blaser S2 in 470 puts 2 shots touching at 50 meters with factory ammo. That pleases me. It's hard to accept custom rifles shooting less than that. For me it's a different ball game that I have to get my head around, and I will. As I said, this 500 shoots minute of buff at 50 yards or less and that is what I bought it for.
As for recoil tolerance, I had major shoulder reconstruction last year in Feb. Till that point, I shot in the neighborhood of 25000 rounds per year, mainly out of my big bores. It has been a much longer road back to the full recovery than I expected. Not being able to shoot for 8 full months set me back. Hell, the first time I got to shoot, I shot a 6mm, an AR and then went to the .338WM. I thought I was gonna piss myself when I touched the first round off out of that. I moved down in caliber for the next couple of weeks and then tried a .375. I was pleasantly surprised when it didn't make me cry. I have steadily moved back up to the bigger bores and will get back to normal sooner than later. Not an excuse, just the facts. Plus, I haven't shot a true big bore since December of last year. Or maybe this is just a story and I'm a big sissy........but it's not a story.

Pego; wish you a very quick and complete recovery my friend, I am positive that you will get used to the 500 and it should bring you a lot of satisfaction. I am interested in hearing of the range reports and the chronograph results.
As for accuracy, rightfully so one should expect to have a very accurate rifle out of a custom built one. Believe me, I fully understand the great satisfaction that one’s feels when shooting an accurate rifle and looks at the beautiful group on his target printed exactly where he aimed.


Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Mike, do you have any idea of the velocity with the 98 grains of RL15?

Certainly, these are from the last trip to the range before I left for Zim. These were all with 570 grain North Fork FPS's. Measured with a Chrony F-1.

Krieghoff:

R1 2088
L1 2079
R2 2130
L2 2083
R3 2076
L3 2072
R4 2076
L4 2070
R5 2063
L5 2077

Heym:

R1 2119
L1 2125
R2 2127
L2 2132
R3 2111
L3 2125
R4 2112
L4 2114
R5 2119
L5 2115

Ricky Boy, Ricky Boy! I don't know what to do with you son. Such a jarhead!

I almost can't speak with anyone who shoots the rear trigger first. All I can think of is guys who wear their caps sideways:



Or wear their pants sagging:



But we shall endeavor to persevere since you ARE a NAVY stepchild

I didn't get a chance to try the 4831 load yet. But I'll pass this along just for arguments sake. When I was looking for a RL-15 replacement, I asked several guys for a 4831 load to try. Sam Rose gave me a ref from QuickLoad but added that it would be the hardest recoiling load you can use in the caliber. I suspect that is what you are experiencing. That and the fact that your shoulder is probably sensitive after being reconstructed.

My recoil tolerance is perhaps a bit off from normal simply because I do a lot of big bore shooting. But I DO notice a difference between RL-15 and IMR 4007 SSC. I think you'll like that powder better. And as others have stated here, in the 500NE case, even with the shorter 510gr and 475gr CEBs, there is no need for filler as the load will be slightly compressed. The 577NE needs filler with RL-15, but not the 500NE.

Very nice rifle! The wood Butch is offering seems to get better with every rifle he builds.
Think you just bought the ultimate praire dog killer!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

The 577NE needs filler with RL-15...

Would you recommend RL-15 as the best powder for the 577NE (even with wads), or did you find anything better (recoil-wise)?

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:

Peter, I didn't think it was funny
But, it's what I expect from Todd.
Thanks for the Chrono data Mike. I will see what I can do with the RL 15. The bright side of that is that if I am shooting the hardest kicking load, it's just gonna get easier and easier when I move to a softer load.

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:

Peter, I didn't think it was funny

I think he meant well; there were a couple of smilies in his post.
Apologies if my post caused offense

No Peter, no offense taken. Todd and I go back and forth all the time. He gives me crap, I give him crap.....
I was wondering where that guy got my cap though
There are no apologies necessary, my post was in jest sir!
Rick

Hi Rick. All good

Just so no one gets the wrong idea, Rick and I are buds! We enjoy picking at each other and it's always in good fun.

Could have been a serious issue though if he was driving a Ford as well!

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

The 577NE needs filler with RL-15...

Would you recommend RL-15 as the best powder for the 577NE (even with wads), or did you find anything better (recoil-wise)?

Peter

I never shot anything in the 577NE but RL-15. Sam Rose and Mike Jines may have experience with other powders for the mighty 577NE however. Maybe they'll chime in a bit.

OK
for those of you who wanted pics, please bear in mind I'm a crappy picture taker but I tried

That looks like a fairly unobtrusive mount. I'm not familiar with the RMR, are you able to throw up a pic of the sight window looking down the barrels? Looks like they use a fairly long eye relief.

Rhodes,
I will try to do that a bit later in the week, unable to right now and it is an unobtrusive mount. It also is QD with a coin in case you need to take it off or the battery dies, or just want to take it off. It doesn't really mess up the lines and makes me a much more accurate shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by Rhodes:
That looks like a fairly unobtrusive mount. I'm not familiar with the RMR, are you able to throw up a pic of the sight window looking down the barrels? Looks like they use a fairly long eye relief.

The RMR (and probably most similar red dots) don't seem to have eye-relief in the traditional sense. So you can put the sight as far or as close to the receiver as necessary due to your own mounting constraints and preference.

G.
The main reason is my eyesight. Without my contacts, I'm pretty blind and when I put them in, I see 20/20 at distance but have to wear reading glasses up close. When I put on reading glasses, I can't see far off and the RMR gives me a more definite aiming point without having to use iron sights. I chose the model I have for the smaller red dot, I believe it is the 3moa dot instead of the 6 or more. Seems to work very well and is just the ticket for me.

G.
Okay, you stand corrected. The model I bought was the RM-06 and the dot size is 3.25 It is adjustable for windage and elevation, limited but adjustable. I don't like the bigger dots and can/will take extra batteries with me beside putting a fresh one in before I even leave.
Battery life, I would have to go home and find the owners manual but I seem to remember something about 5000 hours. Someone please correct me if they know different. I will check tonight and if that is incorrect, I will post it.
I have no answer about the Nickel Boron or non. Don't know
The main reason I chose this model is the dot size.

G.
I just found the manual here at the office
Verbatim out of the owners manual
"The Adjustable and LED RMR use one (1) CR2032 3v DC Lithium batter to power the RMR which is included in the original packaging. The RMR's battery life has been tested to provide over 1 year, continuously "on" in Normal operating conditions. Extreme temps will have dramatic effects on batter life..." and so on.

You're welcome.

Hey Rick.

That 500 is a Beautiful Piece of Work, when I looked at it I thought it was a "Deluxe" model.
Cheers mate.

Thanks Baz. I like it.

Okay, here is a pic of the regulation target and the trijicon rmr mounted and then there will be a pic of the down the bore look at the Trijicon
Regulation measures just a skosh under 1/2" between the two shots and the shot on the left was a sight in shot.
Damn is he good