Ok.. I found an old english gun 1870's era,
by a well known english maker... the owner
doesn't know the caliber... no remaining
marks on the barrels or ribs...I'm trying
to get a pic of the proof marks..

Paper 28ga shotgun shell chambers and
shoots, plastic 28ga is a tight fit..

I know.. what knucklehead shoots a
shotgun shell out of a DR..

I'm guessing around 577bpe... what would
your guess be.. and do you think firing
the shotgun shells could have damaged the
chambers...

barrels are rifled, has iron and flip up sights,
gun weight unknown.. but he guesses around 8
to 9 lbs +

Al

Al:

Might not have had any caliber markings on top of the barrels. It's actually pretty common for older British rifles to have no caliber markings aside from the proof marks.

Since it's English and might be that early...prior to 1887, the bore size of RIFLES stamped among the proof marks were in gauge, not decimals of an inch.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

My .577 takes a 24 gauge shell not a 28 gauge.

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express:
Al:

Might not have had any caliber markings on top of the barrels. It's actually pretty common for older British rifles to have no caliber markings aside from the proof marks.

Since it's English and might be that early...prior to 1887, the bore size of RIFLES stamped among the proof marks were in gauge, not decimals of an inch.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Thanks 400 for that info...my Manton is marked .793 + the proof marks

Where do one obtain such info..?
Is it just a matter of have had many doublerifles in "borecalibers" a pattern shows up?

quote:

Originally posted by jens poulsen:

Thanks 400 for that info...my Manton is marked .793 + the proof marks

Unless it's been reproved, that means it's a 10 bore rifle built after 1887.

quote:

Where do one obtain such info..?
Is it just a matter of have had many doublerifles in "borecalibers" a pattern shows up?

A number or works contain information about British proof marks. Virtually all of them are shotgun-centric though, and none cover rifles fully. You just have to read the rules of proof carefully, and look at lots of rifles.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I agree with Mark, the proof marks are the key in most cases. However, many of the older double rifles from the Germanic countries from the black powder days are not well marked.

I have an idea that wht you have is a double rifle chambered for the 58 Berdan Musket cartridge,as it is almost exactly the same size as a 28 ga shot shell. There is also a Berdan Carbine cartridge as well, that is simply a short version of the Musket round. They are .58 caliber black powder cartridges, that are most time mistaken for rim fire cartridges, because most were "INSIDE PRIMED" and that are indeed center fire. Cases can be made from 577NE cases, and make fine deer, up to Moose rifles in thick woods, and short range!

I wouldn't reccomend shooting smokeless shot shells in it, if you value your eyes, face, and fingers!

ok... I'll let the cat out of the bag... it's an ad on gunbroker for a williams and powell 28 ga shotgun... but after calling the guy, and asking questions... I'm convinced it's a double rifle or was converted... anyone wanna help me on this one before I take the plunge... anyone in Lexington, VA that might be able to look at it?

mystery double

The pictures and seller's (who is apparently clueless) description are no help. If the barrels are rifled, and a 28 gauge shell will chamber, then the basic case has a base diameter larger than .500 basic, which means it's probably .577 basic. That means too many options to be worth a guess. Without chamber casts, bore slugs, and good photos of the proof marks, it's a pig in a poke.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

and do you think firing
the shotgun shells could have damaged the
chambers...

No. Even BP rifles operated at higher pressures than shotguns do, even modern ones...........

Hi,
Looks like my W.Richards double for the 577 Snider cartridge, but it use 24ga cutted to 2".
IMHO the stock was not original.
Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Martin Godio:
IMHO the stock was not original.

Yes, the Powell in the link has been restocked, and not in the UK.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Many double rifles in the U.K. were rebored for 20 and 28 bore shotguns. It's far easier to get the shotgun permit than to get a firearms permit. I've owned a double H & H and a Grant that started life as .450 and ended up 28 bores.

But the bores are still rifled... they are not
smooth, I agree on the stock, looks nice.. but
not "English" enough, barrels are engraved Wm Powell and sons though...

Al

I don't see where it says that the bores are rifled. I do see the rear sight. He want twice what it's worth with that stock.

quote:

Originally posted by casper50:
I don't see where it says that the bores are rifled. I do see the rear sight. He want twice what it's worth with that stock.

It's in the first post on the string.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by casper50:
Many double rifles in the U.K. were rebored for 20 and 28 bore shotguns. It's far easier to get the shotgun permit than to get a firearms permit. I've owned a double H & H and a Grant that started life as .450 and ended up 28 bores.

What a dirty, bleedin' shame!! A sacrelege, even!