What is everyone's thoughts on sleeved barrels? I've tried searching the forum but don't see much information. Obviously they must decrease the value of a gun because the few doubles I've seen for sale with sleeved barrels seem to be on the market for a while, and at seemingly lower prices.

I understand that any vintage double with sleeved barrels would be less valuable due to not being in its original condition. My question is, from a functionality standpoint....are sleeved barrels okay? Are they safe and dependable if they are done correctly? Is there anything specific to be on the lookout for, if someone is considering a double with sleeved barrels?

The particular gun I'm referring to at the moment is a Charles Braekers .500 NE that is listed by JJ Perodeau here:

https://www.gunsinternational....cfm?gun_id=102190848

I would pass

quote:

Originally posted by rglenz:
I would pass

That is not very helpful....can you elaborate on why you would pass? I'm simply trying to gain some knowledge about the topic.

Also for clarification, I'm not ready to make a purchase right now....I just wanted to use that specific rifle as a reference point, so that I could make an educated judgement on a similar offering in the future.

Eland Slayer,

Sorry I was busy! Sleeved shotguns sell for 30% less, or more than original barrels. Home builders sleeve shotguns to build double rifles, properly done I hear
they work fine.

If JJ says the sleeving is well done, I'm sure it is!
I was looking at the rifle and the price point, after spending that kind of money I don't think I could look at that forearm for very long.
Personally I don't see you ever getting your investment back.

IMHO if someone with JJ's creds says they're OK, they're OK.

People buy or use double rifles for different reasons. Personally, I don't buy assuming an investment will be protected, just buy to use and enjoy a few over my lifetime. I'd much rather have a nicely sleeved DR in a useful caliber than deal with obscure old cartridges, like I'm doing now!

For quality of the job, people like JJ know.
For value, only the buyer knows what works for them. Buy what works for you.

My first question would be who did the sleeving and were the barrels reproofed thereafter. Also, what was the original chambering, which will tell you a bit more about the gun. My suggestion would be to ask for pictures of the barrel flats, which will at least partially answer those questions.

For almost $14,000 you're nipping at the heels of a lightly used Heym, Verney Carron, or other modern double.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
For almost $14,000 you're nipping at the heels of a lightly used Heym, Verney Carron, or other modern double.

If you know of a used Heym .500 that is $14,000 I would be very interested. I have not seen one under $20k recently. (With the exception of one listed by Ralf Martini, which is in pretty rough shape)

Have a read of

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/...rst-century-sleeving

Also that just all modern double guns are built on monoblocks, ie you have a breech block with lugs and ejectors into which barrels are sleeved. In other words pretty much the same as older guns when barrels are sleeved.

Value wise its not a good idea, its rather a last resort..They seem to work..most older doubles have rather bad barrels, but in my experience older bad barrels at those lower velocities seem to shoot quite well, so Id sure check that out on the bench..Personally, I would not invest in one to sleeve or was sleeved as it would be hard to sell if needed..even if it shot well most folks would pass..

Hello Eland Slayer,

I currently have 5 sleeved double guns; ... a 22lr ... a 25acp ... a 32-40 ... a 20 bore ... and a 700NE

In addition I owned 3 other sleeved double guns; ... a 10bore ... a 600NE ... and a 20ga
Those 3 sold for reasonable prices, even making a profit on all 3.

I have been very happy with all of them and consider them a very worth while investment.

Im concerned about a barrel thats glued in so to speak, and it ruins a collectable firearm. to each his own but I prefer a rebore as opposed to laminated one ...It is free choice however..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Im concerned about a barrel thats glued in so to speak,..

None of my sleeved doubles were/are "glued in" - all were very professionally done. Several were mono-blocked into the original breech. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from JJ.

Glad your satisfied with solder I assume, and its whatever blows your skirt up, freedom of choice is a given right..

.

Only saw this now ....

I picked up a pair of British sidelock 12 bore shotguns some years back. The No. 1 gun had thin walls and hence the low price. The gunsmith suggested sleeving them (proper sleeving job) and told me that this would make them less attractive in the sales market. But a/ as the No 1 gun was only just in proof and b/ I wasn't thinking of selling them (and still am not today), I had him sleeve them and I use them regularly today!

Would I buy sleeved guns in the hope of turning a profit in the future - no, then again I have never purchased a gun hoping to make a short term profit.

If you like the gun and it shoots straight then buy it and shoot it !

.

By 'sleeving' are you talking about using the guns orig bbl breech section as a Monobloc. Then inserting new bbl's into that.
Or
Are you saying the orig bbl's are Re-lined full length with a new 'liner' that is then chambered for the cartridge.

Damascus bbl'd shotguns were for a while 'Sleeved' full length inside. The term used by the Brit company doing the work.
(IIRC the company was 'Teague' or something close to that spelling.

A very thin new mfg steel insert was epoxied into place. Full length, chamber to muzzle after boring out the bbl(s). Each gun was it's own project specs.
A great idea it seemed to bring Damascus bbls up to steel bbl specs, But it didn't work out in all cases and the process is no longer done AFAIK.

MonoBloced bbl's on most all rifle bbl's done on DR work are threaded into the monobloc made from the orig bbl set.

A very fine thread TPI, carefull lathe work to bring shoulder surfaces of monoblock and new bbl together. Most times in the past the joint was further sweat soldered together. Lately the set up is done with a threadlocker on the torqued up assemblys.

Monobloc bbl's done on Shotguns are mostly a slip fit and sweat soldered into place. Though some are very fine threaded and screwed into position as well.

Full length liners are often seen on home built DR's. An easy way to get to where you want to be. But the result is usually a very heavy rifle w/the same old SxS shotgun looks.
47-70 liners in a 12ga SxS,,we've all likely seen them.
But many smaller bore rifles have been made on 410 shotguns with full length rifle bbl liners and they come out looking and handling fine. Just the smaller overall gun you are starting with.

The bbl conversion work can be great, but don't discount the condition of the rest of the rifle.
Go through it like any other.
What was the rifle proofed for orig.
Does it have large dia BP era firing pins and now chambered for a smokeless powder high pressure cartridge?

Re,bbl'd is great with it's shiny new bores and all, but how does it shoot?
Was there any effort given during the conversion work to Range time regulation the rifle w/new bbl set?
It's a touchy process most times and can be expensive with some of the BigBoy rounds.
..and not just a couple Laser light cartridges in the bores to see where they point,,actual firing at known distances by someone that understands a DR and what is going on when they do not converge.
Sometimes that part of the dress-up party is quietly left undone.

What the value of a Monobloc'd DR is over an orig is up to you. I'm sure the market has some ideas and the Make of the gun and grade would have something to say about it.

When there were more 'smiths around that did reboring of rifle bbl's, there were a few among them that would take on the job of rebore-rerifle DR's as well.

I'm a bit late to this party. That being said, whenever I see a double shotgun or double rifle with sleeved barrels, I immediately remove it from consideration. Just me.

Me too! New barrel or a rebore a rifle Im good with, no sleeved or lined shotguns or rifles..

I have just seen this Boss Sidelock pop up in the Holts Catalogue. Its barrels were sleeved back in the 1960s. At that point it was 70 years old so presumably the original barrels were worn out.

I have no clue as to condition of these barrels in terms of thickness etc. But for the guide price of £2000 to £3000 it could be a very nice gun to be used. Or it could be a money pit. Or could be the basis of a complete rebuild with new barrels. For the latter you are talking a few tens of thousands depending on who and how the work is done. But with a new boss or Holland costing £200,000 might be worth doing.

I don’t think you can resleeve a previously sleeved gun. It would need new barrels. As for the action, it could be totally fine, or in need of lots of tender loving care and new parts being made by hand.

Definitely worth a close look.

https://auctions.holtsauctione...o=++203734&saletype=

Would sleeving affect the regulation of the barrels? I would want to shoot it and find that both tubes shoot to pretty much the same general area.

quote:

Originally posted by gwahir:
Would sleeving affect the regulation of the barrels? I would want to shoot it and find that both tubes shoot to pretty much the same general area.

Will depend on who did the sleeving. Done properly barrels should shoot and handle well, including being regulated properly. Done poorly they will not.

But agree with any double gun, shot or rifle, it’s well worth handling them, shooting them etc before parting with your hard earned cash. A good dealer or private seller will often arrange this to happen - it often will seal the deal. But with auctions etc - unlikely.

And challenge with regulation, especially with rifles it’s often difficult to know what ammo the gun was regulated for - other ammo may or may not regulate.

In my opinion its a slippery slope! that Im not willing to risk with hard earned cash, but certainly allow each of us to walk the walk.

2152HQ pretty much said it all, I considered a fully sleeved barrel as not my cup of tea..as to sleeving a Monoblock that seems to be a totally different process and were now mixing the process, but I think a monobloc would be more likely to be re-barreled would it not, other than preserving the lettering of the original.

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
I have just seen this Boss Sidelock pop up in the Holts Catalogue. Its barrels were sleeved back in the 1960s. At that point it was 70 years old so presumably the original barrels were worn out.

I have no clue as to condition of these barrels in terms of thickness etc. But for the guide price of £2000 to £3000 it could be a very nice gun to be used. Or it could be a money pit. Or could be the basis of a complete rebuild with new barrels. For the latter you are talking a few tens of thousands depending on who and how the work is done. But with a new boss or Holland costing £200,000 might be worth doing.

I don’t think you can resleeve a previously sleeved gun. It would need new barrels. As for the action, it could be totally fine, or in need of lots of tender loving care and new parts being made by hand.

Definitely worth a close look.

https://auctions.holtsauctione...o=++203734&saletype=

Of course you can “resleeve” a gun that’s been sleeved. That is to say you can pull the old barrels out of the “monoblock” and replace them with new. Heck, the hard parts been done in that instance.

re-sleeveing is not re-barreling..Seems some just cant get this straight!