I shot the 450 gr. North Fork Flat point solids in my 450 No2 today. I used the same powder charge that worked with the 450 gr. Cup Point Solids. I shot the double at 25, 50 and 100 yards. They hit the same as the 480/500 grain bullets with one grain more of RL 15.
88gr for the 480/500, and 89 gr. with the 450 North Forks.
We will see how they do in Africa.

Tony, glad to hear that you got your loads worked out. Will be looking forward to your hunting report when you get back.

Hog Killer

NE 450 No2,

I need a little help understanding something that I think you can be of assistance with.
I've no loading experience, I am just a reader and talker, hope that changes soon.

I own one loading manual, A-Square's.
It shows 7 loads for your caliber in a 26" barrel using a bullet weighing 465 grn. Powders: H-4831, IMR-4831 and RL-22.
IMR has the lightest loads @ 107 grn. giving 2158 FPS velocity.
It may be a typo as 108.6 grns. gives 2116 FPS so I think these two are reversed.
110 grn. gives 2201 FPS.
RL-22 is @ 112 grn and 117 grn, the later giving 2200 FPS velocity.
The heaviest load is with H-4831 @118.5 grn giving 2178 FPS.

I know retreever is using 88 grn loads in his rifle and I am reading your loads which are basically a match for Mike's.

If I recall you use RL-15 mostly.
Is this powder SO different from the others that it takes SO MUCH LESS to get 2150 FPS velocity, (or in that ball park)?

Thanks for your time.

Jack
The A Square loads were shot in a new barrel.
Most of these British doubles are 80 years or so old.
The standard load for the 450 No2 was 80 grains of Cordite. My rifle is proofed and regulated for the Tropical load of 75 grains of Cordite.
It is not unusual for the velocity to drop when you have gone up one grain of powder, especially if you only shoot a small number of rounds over the chrono. This happened with my 450 No2 when testing 100,101,102, and 103 grains of IMR 4831. With the small sample I shot 100 grains gave the highest velocity, by a small margin, but it shot the best and to the sights.
Velocity with 100 grains was 2015fps with 480 Woodleigh softs.

With 81 grains of IMR 3031 velocity with 480 Woodleigh softs was 2080 fps.

With 93 grains of RL 15 [an 80 grain Cordite equivilent] velocity was 2176.8 with 480 Woodleigh Softs.

Strangely enough I have not chronoed the loads with 88 grains of RL 15. The nice thing about 88 grains is that 480 Woodleigh Softs and Solids, 500 gr Hornady soft and old style solids, and the 500 gr Swift A-Frame all regulate well and hit to the sights.

I used Woodleigh Softs and solids and Swift A Frames on buff and the Woodleigh Solids on elephant with perfect results.

With 89 grains of RL 15 North Fork Cup points do 2205 fps. With 90 grains velocity is 2240. The rifle shoots best with the 89 grain load. Also the NF Flat Point Solids hit good with 89 grains. I am taking some NF CP and FN solids with me to Zim in March.

So to answser your question it takes less of a faster burning powder to get the same velocity in the Nitro Express cartridges.

I like the RL 15 loads the best as they seem to have less pressure, less recoil, and the barrels do not get as hot when shooting multiple rounds as they do with IMR 4831.

I know some people do not like to use fillers, but in the 450 No2 I found fillers necessary with ALL powders I have tried.

My rifle seems to shoot best with 500 grain bullets, the next time I buy some Woodleigh's I am going to try some 500 grainers.

Is there a down side to choosing a 450 #2 NE over the more common 470 NE?
I know a plus is the .458 bullet is available every where.
I recently shot retreevers .450 #2 NE (Champlin - FAMARS) and we had a great time.
It was the first time I'd shot a DR.

Jack
When I first began my quest for a Double rifle I wanted a 450 3 1/4" or a 450 No2.
The reason, I like the 458 bore and I knew I would be shooting my double quite a bit on the deer lease and I wanted a large selection of lighter bullets for the lighter game.
I have been very happy with my 450 No2. If I could go back and start over I would do the same thing.

The advantages to the 470 are that It is easier to get factory ammo as Federal loads for it.
$70 brass is easier to find, and now there are several good 470 bullets, some made here in the states. Hawk can provide light weight bullets [350 Hawks have shot good in a couple of 470,s I know of], also Hornady 400 grain bullets can be used, the ones for the 475 Linebaugh.

The only down side to a 470 is that British and other Vintage doubles usually will be a little more money.

All of the doubles in the 450 to 475 No2 are equal in the field in "killing/stopping" power.
Unless I had to have a 450 bore rifle or a 470 I would not care which of the 450/475 cartridges I got as long as I knew I could get brass and bullets for it.
I also have a Briitish 450/400 3 1/4", a calibre that I like a lot.

What did you think of a double now that you have shot one?

It was a great experience and the recoil was not at all bad.
I will be shooting a 500 NE some time in Feb or Mar thanks to Doc52 and his son 577NitroExpress.

Is your brass more costly than 470 NE brass?
I love the looks of the 450 #2.

450 No2 and 475 No2 brass is the most expensive of all the Nitros under 600. It is 3 1/2" long with a very thick rim.
I use Bertram brass and have some cases that have been fired 20 to 30 times. I have never lost a case.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I shot the 450 gr. North Fork Flat point solids in my 450 No2 today. I used the same powder charge that worked with the 450 gr. Cup Point Solids. I shot the double at 25, 50 and 100 yards. They hit the same as the 480/500 grain bullets with one grain more of RL 15.
88gr for the 480/500, and 89 gr. with the 450 North Forks.
We will see how they do in Africa.

Will you try out some NF solids on ele brain shots?

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
Is there a down side to choosing a 450 #2 NE over the more common 470 NE?

Yes. Resale value will be lower and ammo/brass are not as readily available. Some will say that the slight increase in bullet frontal area by going with the .470 is advantageous, although it would be difficult to scientifically prove that the difference is material.

500grains
Yes I plan to try some head shots on elephants with the NF Flat points. I will also be taking some Cup points for buffalo.