As many of you may know, Merkel has never offered a double rifle above the 9.3x74 except in the Safari grade frame. I am submitting an order for a custom double rifle based on the medium frame (8.5-9 lbs) in a .375 FL. If they can do a 9.3 on this frame, then they should be able to do the same for a .375 Fl as the pressure is near the same as the 9.3.

Who else would be interested in a Merkel in the .375 Fl at that weight and with good wood and case coloring? Of course engraving raises the prices.

Thanks, Mike

Would be nice with their H&H side lock action.

Price range Mike?

Right, so I've been thinking about buying a Merkel in the 9.3x74r for quite a while now. If I could get in .375 Flanged...heck yeah. That would be much more better! I wouldn't have issues on the whole DG minimum issue.

Having handled the Merkel 9.3's I can say they are one sweet handling tool. They are truly lovely and lightweight carry guns.

Revision: the 9.3 Merkel 141 is built on the 28ga frame and comes in just under of 7# empty. A .375 flanged on the 20ga frame might actually be heavier than I want. But I'd sure take a long hard look at it.

Price range for a very simple rifle?

I loved my 141(e) in 9.3x74R. I particularly liked the light weight and (not incidentally) the cost.

Price and weight would be determinates for me and I'm definitely interested.

I'd be interested in a Merky .375 Flanged, a bit later on.

Yes sir

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
Revision: the 9.3 Merkel 141 is built on the 28ga frame and comes in just under of 7# empty. A .375 flanged on the 20ga frame might actually be heavier than I want. But I'd sure take a long hard look at it.

The 141 is on the 28 ga action and has short barrels and has adjustable regulation, a feature I dislike on a double rifle!

I have a 140E-1, 9.3X74R and it is on a 20 ga action, has selective ejectors and is case colored. The 140E-1 has 24in barrels and weighs in at 8.3 pounds. That is the frame the 375NE flanged should be barreled for, with factory fixed regulation. A 140E-1 chambered for 375H&H flanged magnum would get my attention, but the 141 is even too light for the 9.3X74R IMO!

......................................................................

This gun would not be on the 141 action (28 gauge frame). It would be on the 20 gauge frame, but not the re-inforced 20 gauge frame of the Safari series.

I think MacD37 has the same frame gun in 9.3, weighing in at around 8.5-9lbs. This rifle will have 24" barrels, and I will push for minimal engraving, case coloring, nice wood, set front trigger, etc.

I will not have a price until I hear back from Germany some time next week. The more folks interested in this rifle will give incentive for Merkel to move on this order.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
Revision: the 9.3 Merkel 141 is built on the 28ga frame and comes in just under of 7# empty. A .375 flanged on the 20ga frame might actually be heavier than I want. But I'd sure take a long hard look at it.

The 141 is on the 28 ga action and has short barrels and has adjustable regulation, a feature I dislike on a double rifle!

I have a 140E-1, 9.3X74R and it is on a 20 ga action, has selective ejectors and is case colored. The 140E-1 has 24in barrels and weighs in at 8.3 pounds. That is the frame the 375NE flanged should be barreled for, with factory fixed regulation. A 140E-1 chambered for 375H&H flanged magnum would get my attention, but the 141 is even too light for the 9.3X74R IMO!

......................................................................

I decided to run the numbers last night on the Merkels.

I have a k1 in 7mm RMag. Scoped that rifle tips 6.5#. Driving a 140 gr bullet at 3200 fps I get around 26.5# of free recoil energy.

With the 141, a 286gr bullet at 2200 (short barrels on the Merk) I end up with 32#. I used 8# scoped for the weight.

Compared to my .375 With a 300gr bullet at 2550 fps on a 10# rifle I end up at 37.86#.

At least by the numbers I figure I'm ok with this.

Is all good times either way I slice it.

Ps: the capacity for regulation is exactly one of the reasons why I really like the Merkel. I like the Chapuis but I'm not sold on the fixed regulation. It's probably a moot point since I'd only be shooting the 286 bullets anyway.

Any updates on pricing?

quote:

Originally posted by Blaserguy:
Any updates on pricing?

Still waiting on a price and final approval from Germany. I'll let you all know asap.

Thanks for the interest, Mike

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
Compared to my .375 With a 300gr bullet at 2550 fps on a 10# rifle I end up at 37.86#.

At least by the numbers I figure I'm ok with this.

Is all good times either way I slice it.

.

The .375 Flanged produces 2250 to 2400fps with a 300 gr bullet, and there is little need for any other weight bullet in the .375H&H or .375 FL mag! 8.3 pound Merkel 140E-1 action is a perfect weight for a double chambered for that round. If scoped it will run about 9 pounds loaded.

Beibs and I were just chatting about your project!
He was going to give you my contact info but I think he is still off hunting Gnarly things in Alaska?
Please keep me in the loop, this sounds very interesting...with nice wood, ejectors, and nice adjustable express sights and claw mounts for QR scope!!
Curious why you would not consider the Reinforced action? I know it is not necessary for this caliber, but it is cool!! Sideplate action would be neat too....pricing issues??
**Delivery time??
Cheers,

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Beibs and I were just chatting about your project!
He was going to give you my contact info but I think he is still off hunting Gnarly things in Alaska?
Please keep me in the loop, this sounds very interesting...with nice wood, ejectors, and nice adjustable express sights and claw mounts for QR scope!!
Curious why you would not consider the Reinforced action? I know it is not necessary for this caliber, but it is cool!! Sideplate action would be neat too....pricing issues??
**Delivery time??
Cheers,

QR scope mounts would be available as an option. The main reason I don't want the re-inforced action is because I want this gun to be between 8-9 lbs. The 10.5 lb guns on the re-inforced actions are just overkill for this caliber I feel. I want an easy to carry, accurate, and well-balanced double. I'll keep you in the loop. I received an email from Merkel USA yesterday, but no confirmation yet from Germany. Hopefully, soon.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
Compared to my .375 With a 300gr bullet at 2550 fps on a 10# rifle I end up at 37.86#.

At least by the numbers I figure I'm ok with this.


Is all good times either way I slice it.

.

The .375 Flanged produces 2250 to 2400fps with a 300 gr bullet, and there is little need for any other weight bullet in the .375H&H or .375 FL mag! 8.3 pound Merkel 140E-1 action is a perfect weight for a double chambered for that round. If scoped it will run about 9 pounds loaded.

I have always felt strongly for the 300 gr 375 bullet but I must admit as I use the 270 TSX far more now. As the 375 is known as a good all around caliber the 270 TSX also is a good all around bullet for its uses.
I have used the bullet on lion and I know that it has been used on buffalo and I'm not sure if I would use it on such but I have never planned on useing a 375 on buffalo either. That is the magic of the 375, you will often find it in your hands when opportunity knocks and a "more suitable" caliber for buffalo is in the truck.

Over the weekend I discussed this project with a very knowledgeable double rifle owner and shooter. He strongly recommends that a 375 Flanged mag weigh in at least 9.5-10 lbs. He undersands your comments at 8.5 to 9...and he has shot a 9.3x74R Merkel a lot....he feels all too light for the caliber...light and whippy, not solid and steady for the shot.....great to carry, but this doesn't out weigh the shooting characteristics.
You might want to re-think this weight. Perhaps we might be able to select the action and ending weight?
Any further feedback from factory??
Cheers,

I feel people in the US seem to go on about
weight and try to get it too low for the exact
reasons you mentioned.

Trying to keep a light gun steady after walking
is not as easy as it sounds.

I have 375 bolt rifles that are all under 9-1/2 pounds with one about 7-1/2 pounds.
I really think that a weight around 9 to 9-1/4 pounds feels pretty good to me.
When I start to handling guns that weight 10 pounds and up I usually go up in cartridge performance if I am going to carry around the extra weight I might as well get the extra performance.
The beauty of the 375 to me is that I will find myself carrying it more because I like the weight and balance and I do not find the recoil overly objectionable in that package.

The thing with weight is, it is all relative.

A 80kg, 20 year old bloke will find a gun different to a 120kg bloke.

Does Merkel still build a rifle with side clips and cocking indicators?? I don't see it in the current specs....where they spoke of them in the 2007 specs. These would be nice additions.

MD, any further word??

I thought all Merkels had cocking indicators.

Nige: Mine only has a safety. I haven't seen anything on it to tell whether it is cocked or not.

What model do you have ?

Does it have the gold pins that stick
out from just in front of the rear edge
of the action ?

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
The thing with weight is, it is all relative.

A 80kg, 20 year old bloke will find a gun different to a 120kg bloke.

505G, you are right of course, but that only applies to ease of carry over a long hot day of a fit or ill fit person. The rifle maker builds only the rifle, and leaves the body condition to the buyer.

IMO with a double rifle, the weight is far more important to the way the rifle handles! Too light and the rifle is hard to control smoothly, too heavy and it becomes a slug on fast action shooting.

A double rifle properly fitted to the shooter, weighted, and balanced creates a “LIVENESS” that seems to make the rifle an extension of the shooters body for fast instinctive shooting. A full 90% shooting where the double rifle is the best tool has to do with it being properly fitted to the owner, and weighted, and balanced so it can be controlled, instinctively, even when the sights are no actually seen while shooting at a moving target!

This is one thing that is wrong with the 140-2 Safari 375H&H Merkel, the outside profile of the barrels are the same as the ,500NE, making it muzzle heavy leaving the already heavy rifle to get even heavier by placing lead in the butt-stock to get rid of the muzzle heavy balance. The 140-1 action is still a 20 ga size action like the 140-2 safari action but made lighted by having the barr profile smaller to better match the thinner barrels for a 375H&H flanged magnum.

I have Merkel doubles with both actions, the heavier action of the 140-2, 470NE safari is fine for the 470NE but the same action chambered for the 375H&H belted cartridge, actually weighs more than the same action chambered for the .500NE making the Safari 375H&H 140 a slug for quick handling! Properly profiled barrels chambered for the 375 FL on the 140-1 action would be not only easier to carry all day for the fat guy, but would make a livelier double rifle over all!

....................................................................

Mac

Agree.

I have a 375 and a 470.

What about the cocking indicators on Merkel's ?

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by rnovi:
Revision: the 9.3 Merkel 141 is built on the 28ga frame and comes in just under of 7# empty. A .375 flanged on the 20ga frame might actually be heavier than I want. But I'd sure take a long hard look at it.

The 141 is on the 28 ga action and has short barrels and has adjustable regulation, a feature I dislike on a double rifle!

I have a 140E-1, 9.3X74R and it is on a 20 ga action, has selective ejectors and is case colored. The 140E-1 has 24in barrels and weighs in at 8.3 pounds. That is the frame the 375NE flanged should be barreled for, with factory fixed regulation. A 140E-1 chambered for 375H&H flanged magnum would get my attention, but the 141 is even too light for the 9.3X74R IMO!

......................................................................

Mac:

I have a Chapuis UGEX 9,3X74R as well as a Chapuis "Jungle" .375 flanged that was regulated With Kynoch ammo. The 9,3 regulates at about 2250 fps with a 286 grain bullet. I bought some Kynock ammo to try in the .375 and it was running about 2344 fps. with an extreme spread of on 20 fps. The .375 regulates perfectly with 80 grains of H4831SC and a 300 grain bullet. Velocity is 2347 fps and an extreme spread of on 13 fps.

For hunting purposes, at hunting ranges, I don't think there is a nickels worth of difference between the 9,3X74 and a .375 flanged, especially with the North Fork cup points. I only bought the Chapuis "Jungle" model cause I wanted one really nicely engraved gun in my collection. It's almost to nice to hunt with.

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Does Merkel still build a rifle with side clips and cocking indicators?? I don't see it in the current specs....where they spoke of them in the 2007 specs. These would be nice additions.

MD, any further word??

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
I thought all Merkels had cocking indicators.

quote:

Originally posted by 505G:
Mac

Agree.

I have a 375 and a 470.

What about the cocking indicators on Merkel's ?

505G, and 470Eddy, I think the newer 141 models do not have cocking indicators, could be wrong, but the bigger bore Safari rifle I think do still have them, and I'm certain they still have the side clips as well but am not sure about the little 141 but I think it does have the side clips!

The side clips and the Greener cross-bolt are valuable regardless of some very well versed double rifle peoples opinion. IMO, the more lock-up features a double has the better as long as they all operate with a movement of the single top lever, or snap latch, and do not get in the way of a fast re-load.

The little brass pins on either side of the 140-1, and 140-2 safari are the cocking indicators, and this is, IMO, a good feature. It can be verified that the rifle has been cocked when loaded and closed. This can be verified even in total darkness, or without taking your eyes off the target by simply feeling with the fingers. If a Merkel double has cocked both barrels the indicators will verify this and it is a good practice to run your fingers across them every time you re-load. If one is not extended that means that side has not cocked, and this can only happen if the cocking lever or the tumbler spring is broken. something it is nice to know before advancing on a wounded buffalo.

.......................................................................

Thanks Mac

I thought you might know the models.

I agree, they are useful.

Dave

Their isn't a nickel worth of difference between
the two calibres if the hunter does his job.

They both have a large bullet range.

The only thing the 375 Fl has is Nostalgia !!!

quote:

by Dave

For hunting purposes, at hunting ranges, I don't think there is a nickels worth of difference between the 9,3X74 and a .375 flanged, especially with the North Fork cup points.

Dave I agree fully! I have always said the 9.3X74R and the 9.3X62 rimless are not given the credit they both deserve! As you say with proper bullets both are deadly hammers!


.................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Does Merkel still build a rifle with side clips and cocking indicators?? I don't see it in the current specs....where they spoke of them in the 2007 specs. These would be nice additions.

MD, any further word??

We are still awaiting a decision from Germany. It is not uncommon for them to delay a decision for weeks, I just have to be patient. The current models of Merkel double rifles are no longer offered with side clips or cocking indicators. This will be another negotiating issue for me.

Any more word from Merkel on this?

quote:

Originally posted by BenKK:
Any more word from Merkel on this?

I've had no success getting a commitment from Germany. I don't think at this point it will happen.

quote:

Originally posted by 470EDDY:
Over the weekend I discussed this project with a very knowledgeable double rifle owner and shooter. He strongly recommends that a 375 Flanged mag weigh in at least 9.5-10 lbs. He undersands your comments at 8.5 to 9...and he has shot a 9.3x74R Merkel a lot....he feels all too light for the caliber...light and whippy, not solid and steady for the shot.....great to carry, but this doesn't out weigh the shooting characteristics.
You might want to re-think this weight. Perhaps we might be able to select the action and ending weight?
Any further feedback from factory??
Cheers,

FWIW, I have a FARMARS Abbitatico & Salvinelli sidelock double rifle in 375H&H. It has the H&H style back action locks and 24" barrels. It weighs 8 1/2lbs and that weigh is perfect. It handles extremely well, it points well, as a double rifle should, but it is not whippy or unsteady. Recoil is easily managed and it is quick to come back on target for the second barrel.

A 450/400 ought to weigh 9lbs, maybe 9.5lbs max and 10lbs-10.5lbs is 450NE, 465/500, 470, etc weight, imo.

Gravity last forever, recoil but a moment. Handling is in the balance, the weight distribution, not the gross tonnage.

JPK