I have a couple modern doubles, one a Searcy. But of course like everyone else here I greatly admire the old classics and often think of buying one.

Anyway, I have a question about those 75 to 100 year old guns. How does the steel compare with modern guns? This is partly a safety question but partly it's a matter of curiousity as to how barrel grade steel making has advanced over those many decades.

I know it will be tempting to give a generalized answer, but what I was more interested in is something more technical as to what the changes have been and which are stronger. Also, do you have to be more careful what loads you shoot in the old ones?

Incidentally, I had my chance to buy a Westley Richards 450/.400 in very good condition for $6K. There's a "but" however. It was nearly twenty years ago. I thought it sounded way high.

IMHO, the steel of the barrels on some of the older guns was soft, especially compared to today.

I would like to know how German Steel ie KRUPP compared to English steel barrels.

Re the 6k gun, yep, what you pay today is yesterday's price tommorrow. I think I know
more people who missed out because they
thought a price was high than not.

George Caswell once told me he prefered Krupp Steel in the older doubles. That is as technical as I can get.

From W.J.Jeffery & Co Catalouge Season 1904-5:

Husky,

That is HARD to read for this reading glasses challenged member. Can you give a few sentance version of which they are promoting and why, ranking them in the order prefered?

Thanks,

JPK

JPK, it's very useful material but I had the same problem on reading. On my system it was easily fixed by hitting "Page" then "Zoom" then select "200%".

Something that many do not realize is, a lot of English double rifle were built around a pair of Krupp barrel blanks. Very few of the makers made their own barrel blanks.

In the vintage double rifles I think as long as they have been cared for properly, they will last another 100 yrs as long as it is fed the loads it was made for!

There is no question that barrel steel has improved over the last 100 yrs, and some of the newly made rifle's barrels my wear better, and resist corrosion better, but the total rifle is still 19th century technology, and there is still the weakness of the design where chamber pressures are concerned. So I guess what I'm really saying is feed the older rifle carefully
with the diet they were fed originally, and with the new one feed them the same, and everyone will be happy with their rifles for a long time. 100 yrs down the road someone will be asking if your old rifle will stand the test! It will if taken care of properly, and fed a proper diet!

Go to
http://www.jesseshunting.com/p.../26705/size/big/cat/
then click on the picture to enlarge it to readable size.

Older European barrels were made of steel that had a higher nickel alloy content. This probably made them a little more corrotion resistant than Chrome molly but it had disadvantages.

The main problem with the older nickel alloy barrels were that they tended to have metal sluff off when the rifleings were cut leaveing imperfections in the bore.

Mirror polish barrels like we see today did'nt exist back then. I've looked at barrels I new to have very few rounds through them and they looked bad. Surprisingly most of the time these barrels seem to shoot much better than you would think they should.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Go to
http://www.jesseshunting.com/p.../26705/size/big/cat/
then click on the picture to enlarge it to readable size.

Hi Mike Brooks,
Thank's for help making the page readable.

Husky

So is it probably correct to say modern barrels and actions have somewhat greater margin for error?

Yes, thanks Shack and Mike Brooks for helping make the page readable.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Yes, thanks Shack and Mike Brooks for helping make the page readable.

JPK

No problem

quote:

Originally posted by husky:


No problem

Me too.

A very knowledgeable person (both older rifles and older shotguns) says this: Find out what the firearm was originally proofed for. Shoot that.