I've never been a fan of a scoped double with the exception of anything smaller than or equal to the 375 H&H. I think a scoped 470 is almost heretical, but the 450/400 is kind of in that area where I'm not particularly sure what to think.

A 400 could certainly benefit from a scope whilst using it for smaller game, but is this thinking also taboo? I know what some of you will sway (Ray) but I'd like to hear opinions on this. Thanks for playing.

I recently scope my British 450/400 double.
Research my previous posts, then ask any specific questions you have.

In my opinion ALL doubles 400 and under should be scoped, with quality QD mounts of course.

More of a question of opinion. Just wondering what people think about doubling a 450/400 or any double for that matter.

I would scope most double rifles. Having said that I would never consider doing it without good quality QD's.
Both mine have claw mounts but EAW's are just as good.

I thinki it's an either/or situation. It really depends on what you plan on doing with it. I struggled with that same question last year when I ordered my 450/400. Ultimately I decided not to as I don't plan on shooting much plains game with mine.

I am taking mine to Namibia in May and will probably shoot selected game (Eland, Warthog and anything that gets close enough).

A detachable scope does make it a "one" gun battery.

I have a friend with 375 Flanged that shoots buffs with his, scope on.

After this next trip, it's strictly cape buffalo from here on out for me.

One a new double I would put a pivot mount such as the EAW pivot I put o my Chapuis.

My vintage British 450/400 3 inch will get EAW Claw Mounts later this year with a Kahles CSX scope.

Always heard that claw mounts handle the recoil a bit better because both the front and back mount take the recoil better...wondering if this is an issue with a 450/400.

maddenwh

I recommend claw mounts for your Heym 450/400. I would use either the Swarovski or the S&B, get an illuminated reticle for sure, your pick.

I recently shot a new Heym 450/400....
VERY NICE.

Baised on everything I have learned about double rifles, if I was buying a new made double rifle today, and could have only one, it would be a scoped Heym 450/400.

If I could have 2 the second would be a 9,3x74R.

I "SHOULD" take possession of my Searcy Classic 400J this week which will have a S&B 1.1-4 set up.
I like the option of being able to clip the scope on for game such as Hyena where a scope is a necessity which makes it unnecessary to take a second rifle on Safari.

The Claw Mounts are considered "classic" double rifle mounts and that's why I'm putting them on my old double. If I were getting a new rifle, I'd get one of the pivot mounts. They are very nice!

maddenwh

I've been a snob about high quality opticks and qd mounts for about the last 30 years. I've had 9 sets of claw mounts installed on various double rifles ,drillings, etc over the years.
Yes they are fine, work perfectly and are prestigious but the old design has been improved on and I've had several sets of EAW's installed and also a set of Bock mounts.
I like the pivot mounts because they give you adjustment if needed in the mount for sight allignment but more importantly you have adjustment for wear. I have actully worn out a set of claw mounts. They also can be fixed but not without a trip to JJ.

The mounting of a scope, on a double rifle, is not a sin against God! If you need a scope sight on your double rifle to get the best from it, then go for it! However, if one is to scope a double, it must be done properly!

Properly, to me, means the type of mount being commiserate with the age, and quality of the rifle being fitted in quality Quick detachable rings, and mounts! This means if the rifle is old, then the proper mount is a claw mount, preferably done by the maker of the rifle, and the work logged in the records of the maker. This only applies to double rifles that are of collector value. IMO, the work done by the maker, and so logged in the records for the particular rifle does nothing to destroy collector value. This is expensive, and if the rifle is one you intend keeping for life, then it can be done as well, or better by JJ, either period, or swivel mounts of modern design.

If the rifle is of new make, then if you are ordering the rifle, have it sent with the rings, and bases already on the rifle, from the maker. If the rifle was bought used, then JJ is the man to see.

The scope on a S/S double rifle is exactly opposite, in use, to a scope on a bolt rifle!

By this, I mean, the scope on a bolt rifle is the primary sight, and the quality iron sights, are for back-up. The rifle is carried with the scope onboard, till it is either broken, or there is a need for the irons as a preferable substitute, for the scope, or a different type of scope in needed. This is why a quality set of QD scope bases, that will absolutely return to zero every time, are required. The scope on a double rifle is a back-up, or specialty sight for special purposes, and is carried separate from the rifle, and only mounted when needed. Properly mounted, period scope bases do not detract from the looks of a fine old double rifle.

A 450/400 Double rifle can definitely utilize a scope for some purposes, and an illuminated reticle is a real plus in any scope mounted on a double rifle, for any purpose!

The scope on a double rifle has many purposes, just the same as on a bolt rifle. Even with dangerous game in tight cover, the scope is sometimes very useful, and can avoid a very dangerous follow-up, by making that first shot very accurately placed, often through tight thorn bush, where you have a tiny hole through the cover to place a shot, WITHOUT hitting an unseen twig, when shooting with the naked eye! Or to give you an illuminated scope for shooting things like Lion, or leopard on bait, when the light is getting dim, and irons are no longer visible. The 450/400NE 3†double rifle is a perfect Lion rifle, and not only for follow-up but for shooting from the blind with an Illuminated, scope. Clip the scope off for follow-up.

.........................................

Thanks for all the suggestions fellas. I have/had pivot mounts on my chapuis 74mm that actually had a bit of trouble returning to zero... it could be that they weren't installed properly (sold the rifle to pay for the 400).

I decided to go ahead and have the factory fit the claw mounts on the gun set up for a Leupold vxIII 1.5x5. I've used this scope on most of my rifles, and because it's what I know and am used to, I thought it would be my best option.

I generally ascribed to the school of thought that a scope on a DR above a 375 in caliber would be an offense against the hunting gods. However, after considering the fact that a scope is often needed to shoot through or to avoid branches in the line of site, I decided it was silly not to have the scope as an option at the very least. Also, why limit a 200 yard rifle to 100 yards (that's on a good day when my eyes decide to function).

I'm a bit surprised that there hasn't been any retractors speak up on the thread yet. Surely there are folks out there that wouldn't be seen scoping a double under any circumstances.

Mac- Excellent advise as usual.

"Baised on everything I have learned about double rifles, if I was buying a new made double rifle today, and could have only one, it would be a scoped Heym 450/400."

450 ne- my thoughts exactly... had to sacrifice a 470 and 9.3 to get mine and afford a buff hunt in Tanzania in 09, but I don't think I'll regret the decision.

I think a lot of people would scope a 458 Winchester. I don't understand why the same folks that would have a scope on a 458 wouldn't have a scope on a 470. Especially those that shoot a scope on every other rifle they own.

A big 500, 577, 600, and so on is a different cat all together.

No matter how well you shoot with a 470 NE without sights you will shoot it better with a 1-4, 1-5, or 1.75-6 low powered red dot.

You will kill more and bigger buffalo, and have quicker shots with a low powered red dot scope than you will with open sights.

It's a matter of putting two seperate items on an animal or putting one red dot.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
I think a lot of people would scope a 458 Winchester. I don't understand why the same folks that would have a scope on a 458 wouldn't have a scope on a 470. Especially those that shoot a scope on every other rifle they own.

A big 500, 577, 600, and so on is a different cat all together.

No matter how well you shoot with a 470 NE without sights you will shoot it better with a 1-4, 1-5, or 1.75-6 low powered red dot.

You will kill more and bigger buffalo, and have quicker shots with a low powered red dot scope than you will with open sights.

It's a matter of putting two seperate items on an animal or putting one red dot.

Not if you are using your express sight correctly on your double, and it fits! You need only put the bead where you want the bullet to go.

But for buff hunting a scope is makes any rifle more versitile, imo.

No way I would voluntarily hunt elephants with a scoped rifle.

JPK