Ok, ok, this has been discussed many times, and let me stress I am anxious to hear your doublelovers chime in on 2 issues.

First, with a full gun safe, including various 404Js, 416s and 458s, but not doubles,

and

a decision made that next year I will hunt ele for the first time, and hopefully continue...

Do I buy, use and prepare a double rifle?

Ok, money is not a big issue- it will be a reasonably priced DR, hopefully a Searcy or Chaupuis, not a vintage collector.

What happened to you guys that made you switch to a DR in this day and age of PHs backing you up with their big sticks, and the very expense of it all (rifle, ammo...ammo...)?

Feel free to wax poetic or tell me to shove off..

Also, I am sorta enamored of the idea of a 450/400. I know it is adequate for ele, and in my mind kind of unique, old school and cool, with the possibility of use on smaller stuff for fun. What do you guys think of this choice over the 470 NE

Ok, I have overstayed my welcome, all (pleasant) responses appreciated.

im in the same place you are... ive got several nice win bolt guns in adequate calibers for dg....458 win mag, 416 rem mag, .375 h&h.... all have bedded, triggers worked, recoil reduced, and i have good loads worked up.... also have a .338 win mag and a 300 win mag....i feel confident with the bolt guns, but the mystique of the double rifles is pulling me... ive looked at the krieghoff big 5 in 470ne, with an extra bbl in 375, several merkels in 470ne and 500ne... a rigby in 500ne, and a searcy in 470ne....it is just about time to thin the vault and move up....good luck in your search....

First and formost there is no need in any of this. It is all for fun. Face it if you were being practical you would have one big bore. That said Doubles are so much fun. Using one adds something intangible but very real to the hunt.

Your idea of a 400 is great. It just simply works and is not too big to be used for every thing else.

that's the up side the down side is that you can't just have one. As soon as you get the first one and use it a little you will start wanting another and another. They realy are that much fun.

I, like you, also have plenty of bolt action "stoppers" in the safe. When I finally decided that it was time to live the dream, I decided that to do it right, I needed a double. It is purely romantic, no practicality involved, but if I only end up with one chance to go to Africa(God forbid!) I want everything to be as close to perfect as I can get it rifle-wise. I shopped for over a year and was set to buy a 475 from Champlins when one of the gentlemen from here traded in a Rodda 450-400 3" and I got it for a very good price. I wanted a vintage english gun, I have always had great admiration for weapons that are the product of skilled craftsmen, working with their hands, that produce a true work of art. Everytime you pick it up, you have history in your hands. I wanted a gun from the approximate era of my Vickers .318 express which will be my plainsgame rifle, and both of these guns were built in the 20's.
Should you buy a double? Absolutely, if you want one, nothing else will cure the itch!
While many on this board sing the praises of the practicality and quality of the Chapuis, I have talked to Butch, looked at many examples of his product, know about his service after the sale and would hands down, buy a Searcy rifle. If I had not wanted an English gun so badly, and not run up against a deadline, I would have ordered a Searcy at Dallas this year.
Why did I make the switch? Like I said earlier, purely romantic, trying to relive a piece of the Golden Age of hunting. Was it expensive? Yes indeed! When you buy the gun, the fun begins! Buying dies, brass and bullets and all of the ancillary accessories can add more expense than you realize, but, Hey, practicality went out the window when you decided on a double! The enjoyment of spending time at the range, working up loads in preperation for the big event, having other shooters come up and admire your gun, and then letting them shoot it( the look on a gun buffs face when he shoots one for the first time is priceless and we have an obligation to help spread the disease!) I cannot think of any purchase in the last twenty years that has given me as much satisfaction.
As to the choice of calibers, I own a 400. The 450 is probably a wiser choice, more power for elephants, lots of cheap bullets. The 470 is one of the all-time greats, no doubt. You would be hard pressed to go wrong with a good 450/400 though, and it is legendary for its penetration, mild manners and all around usefullness. If I was having a Searcy built in this caliber, I would have him build it with scope mounts to extend its utility for plains game. Like you said, with a Pro backing you up anyway, the 400 nitro is plenty. In my opinion, owning a double is great therapy for all of us little boys who refuse to grow up! Lee.

I have owned doubles off and on for the past 50+ years. They are the one gun that always epitomized African hunting to me the other was the English 'Express' rifle. I finally got to Africa and managed to take some plains game and a Leopard, all with a 375 bolt gun,(English Express Rifle). When the opportunity to take an Elephant presented itself I used my 375. Short story I missed the brain shot and lost the Elephant, he made it across the boundary back into an area we had no permit for. I decided I needed a larger gun, a double of course, as the 2 doubles I owned at that time were a 9.3x74r and an 8x60rs and were deemed not 'correct for Elephant'. I bought a new Merkel 470NE and proceeded to shoot my next Elephant dead. My last trip to Zim I took another nice Elephant but used a 416Rigby CZ550 I built. Just wanted to use a 416Rigby as it is another 'correct' caliber for Africa. Probably will never go again and will probably never use the double again. Was it worth the $6000, I doubt it. The pleasure was no more shooting an Elephant with it than it was with the 416Rigby. Hunting Africa is a very personal thing and what is used is even a more personal decision. Would I do it over again, probably not, I would probably use the money for more hunting but it felt like the right decision at the time.

404,

I was just like you 6 years ago. If you have the itch there is only one way to scratch it. And that is with two barrels.

I bought a .470NE from Butch and have never looked back.

Here are few things to keep in mind. Many of the myths one hears about doubles are just that, myths.

Myth # 1 doubles are inaccurate and are only effective at spitting range.

Truth. My Searcy is the most accurate iron sighted heavy rifle I own. I don't hesitate to shot it at any range I would shoot any other iron sighted heavy rifle. I hammer hogs and such with it year round at 100+ yards with boring consistency.

A couple of years ago I was in South Africa waiting to head to Zimbabwe on an friends ranch. In any case to make a long story short on a bet I decked a black wildebeest @ 218 yards with said .470.

Modern doubles and especially Searcy rifles are deadly accurate.

Myth # 2 doubles are to heavy to carry all day.

My Searcy weighs 10Lbs my 458Lott weighs 9.5 my scoped .375 is about 9. You be the judge.

Myth # 3 Doubles aren't practical because they are different than bolt guns and people don't practice enough with them. Well this is a simple and self correcting problem isn‘t it?

Myth # 4 Doubles are so expensive to shoot that you can't practice enough with them to get proficient. Once you get the dies and the brass they are no more expensive to shoot than any other heavy rifle. BUT you must reload or the expense is astronomical.

If you've got the double bug drop the cash and get one. If you don't like it sell it for what you paid for it, no harm no foul.

I do like doubles they are fun to shoot they are a very effective and useable tool once the tricks of the trade are learned and there is something special about carrying one and hunting with one.

Most of the crap I hear about doubles comes from jealus little people.

Not much to add...there is no Need for a double...but they are a hell of a lot of fun. To carry one in the bush is a whole different feeling...one of traditionalism. My suggestion...if you can find a way to buy a double...do it. As long as you are smart...you will most likely always be able to get your money back should you decide to sell.

To hell with the reasons, if you want a double rifle buy one! If you want it chambered for 450/400NE 3", get one chambered that way! You don't have to need one, any more than you NEED any of the other expensive things you own, you buy it because you want it, and to hell with the opinions of others!

404WJJeffery,

I think you should scratch your itch if you want!

I have the same itch, and hope to do something about it in a few years.

Have you considered a 450NE 3 1/4? Seems to me like a perfect blend of big enough for elephant, yet an endless amount of cheap bullets available, which will equal cheaper/more practice.

If you have to ask that question, it probably can't be explained to you. You'll have to buy one and find out. Don't worry, you'll be able to sell off that bolt cranker trash for enough to buy a box of DR shells.

For a guy who needs to ask that question, and really wants to understand the answer, especially if he wants a .450/.400, the first double rifle should ALWAYS be a good quality pre-war British gun. Better guns, built with far fewer sacrifices to price than today's guns, and are, therefore, much more representative of the ideal that makes the double rifle worthwhile. Easier to get your money back out of too, and there are plenty of .400s around. Besides, these new doubles just don't shoot straight enough.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

404WJJeffery - I looked up one day and had several rifles and shotguns of moderate value. Most of which never got shot.

Personally, I made the decision to liquidate those guns and upgrade in quality of fewer guns.

I've never looked back and don't miss a pre-64 (for example) one bit when holding a double rifle.

In my experience with this model, you'll find that you shoot the guns you have more often and enjoy them more.

So, yes – get the double.

Good points all!

I guess I came to get the answer I wanted!

Is it in fact true, or generally accepted, that the older British guns shoot better? I suppose it varies from rifle to rifle, its condiiton, etc, but all things being equal, a regulated, non-off face older English double and say a new Searcy, head to head, as a shooter will the English rifle be a better shooter?

I suppose the resale may be better.

Eric D.- I will look at the 450 NE.

quote:

Originally posted by 404WJJeffery:
Is it in fact true, or generally accepted, that the older British guns shoot better? I suppose it varies from rifle to rifle, its condiiton, etc, but all things being equal, a regulated, non-off face older English double and say a new Searcy, head to head, as a shooter will the English rifle be a better shooter?

I suppose the resale may be better.

Eric D.- I will look at the 450 NE.

I will jump in here again....You will have a hard time getting me to believe that a 100 year old double will always shoot better than a new double. I have nothing against old original English doubles...having said that I think it is much easier to get burned buying one of those than buying a new Searcy. The ones you find for sale often demand a premium price. If they don't...watch out! When buying a older double it is essential to have it checked out prior to purchase....same rule applies with any double for that matter. I believe the rifles Butch makes are some of the best quality Hunting rifles ever made. But once again...that is my own opinion.

I agree with you Roscoe. I will be taking delivery of a new Searcy ph 450/400 in about three weeks and am thrilled. I could have looked for a used British double but I have read about too many horror stories about problems. Butch's rifles have a solid reputation for quality, long user life, and accuracy. Plus by getting a double for the 3" case and 411 diameter bullets, if Hornady produces the rumoured rounds in the near future, I will be set up for easy to obtain factory rounds and cases. (I will also buy a Ruger #1 in this caliber if they introduce it).

Mike Chamberlain

I read Boddington's article on doubles in the latest SCI mag, and he comes out in favor of the "400 Jeffery", and he does mention the issue of bore variance in the older 450/400s from .408 to .411, thus arguing, as MJC does, in favor of a known quantity- the newer rifle with the .411 bore.

I think I am about to hit all the hot buttons with this next query:

Scoped or unscoped?

quote:

Originally posted by 404WJJeffery:
Good points all!

I guess I came to get the answer I wanted!

Is it in fact true, or generally accepted, that the older British guns shoot better? I suppose it varies from rifle to rifle, its condiiton, etc, but all things being equal, a regulated, non-off face older English double and say a new Searcy, head to head, as a shooter will the English rifle be a better shooter?

I suppose the resale may be better.

Eric D.- I will look at the 450 NE.

I think it really depends on the person who regulates the rifle. IMO Butch has a gift for regulating and building DR's, so if you want something built to your specs, of modern materials, have an accuracy guarantee, and with a warranty, buy a Searcy. If you are taken by a nice Pre-War DR then go that route... But be aware that with the Pre War DR you don't get the warranty, etc. so you need to have it checked out by someone you trust before you commit. You do generally get better resale on a older british DR as long as it is in good shape when you sell.

There are pros and cons to both. Pick the one you will have more fun with.

quote:

Originally posted by 404WJJeffery:
I read Boddington's article on doubles in the latest SCI mag, and he comes out in favor of the "400 Jeffery", and he does mention the issue of bore variance in the older 450/400s from .408 to .411, thus arguing, as MJC does, in favor of a known quantity- the newer rifle with the .411 bore.

I think I am about to hit all the hot buttons with this next query:

Scoped or unscoped?

If you are building a new 450-400 then scoped on claw mounts. If it is a Pre War DR then, personally, I wouldn't mess with it.

On Butch’s recommendation, I opted for the Talley rings and mount. Looking at pictures on Butch’s site, the mounting modification in rib for the Talley mount appeared to be very unobtrusive. The rifle will be used primarily with the iron sights but I wanted to be able to use a low powered Leopold scope if I felt that I needed to. I sent Butch my scope and he regulated the rifle for both the iron sights and scope. When I get the rifle, I’ll post pictures if I can figure out how to do it.

Mike Chamberlain

Roscoe:

I was having a friendly dig at Surestrike's comment about the accuracy of "modern" doubles. I would hazard a guess that your own comment was based more on popular myth than actual observation.

First off, I was speaking of pre-war British guns in sound enough condition to talk money over, not the shot-out smoothbores that some idiots are dumb enough to buy and then cry foul over. On average, no, I don't think that the difference is great but, yes, I do think the pre-war British guns have a slight edge. I've been shooting them since before the current Merkels, Krieghoffs, Chapuis, Searcys, etc., were available here, and I still shoot a lot of different double rifles, both old and new.

Between old and new, it's six of one and a half dozen of the other. I've seen new guns that would not shoot, but were correctable with re-regulation. Same with the pre-war British. I remember one new Krieghoff that would not shoot and could not be corrected. The individual barrel groups were too large for re-regulation to do any good. That rifle had to be re-barreled. Likewise the British guns. Over the last year, I can remember shooting 8 pre-war British DRs that were new to me (friends had just bought them), five of which I did load development for. All are great shooters. Two made very small individual barrel groups but shot wide, so needed re-regulation. I shot one of those again two weeks ago and it is simply amazing now. J. J. still has the other, a 104 year old nitro that will be a tack-driver when he is done.

Personally, I won't buy a used DR unless the bores are excellent to excellent plus, but it's surprising how much visible bore wear you can get away with much of the time. Years ago, a friend bought a 1910 vintage Rigby .470 that had the worst Cordite erosion, by far, that I've ever seen. I was sure that the bullets would keyhole, but they didn't. I've shot doubles that were as accurate, but I've never shot one that was more accurate.

Single-barrel rifles and double-barrel rifles have almost nothing in common, and most of the guys who end up unhappy with their doubles are those who never make it through the learning curve. One thing they do have in common is that some need to be tuned. Lots of guys think nothing of buying an off the rack RemRuChester .416 or .458 Lott and then spending hundreds of dollars having a smith iron out the feeding problems, add cross-bolts, and re-bed it so that it will feed and shoot half-way straight without splitting the stock. Same guys then buy a $15,000 double rifle and end up selling it because they're too cheap to spend $600 re-regulating it to make it perfect. As Ross Perot would say, "Now see, that's just plain stoopid."

I see some Searcy owners like Surestrike rave about the accuracy of their doubles, and have no reason to doubt them. I know two guys who said their Searcy's crossfired significantly - a minor problem with simple fix to be sure, but it's no different with a British rifle.

An accurate double is an accurate double, period. However, once you have that, you're not done. If it doesn't handle like a double rifle is supposed to, then it just isn't, no matter how many barrels it has. That's 90% of the reason for the type, and that's where the better British rifles leave all the rest in the dust.

I look forward to meeting you at Cooley.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Buy one you want and get it off your chest. I'll bet it will lead to another!

505ED

.400

Sorry man,

I didn't mean to insult traditional British rifles. I've got nothing against them. I also have very little experience with them.

I did not mean to imply that they were any less accurate than a modern gun. I only was refering to the fact that my Searcy in fact all of the Searcys I've shot have been double coyote ugly accurate.

You may well have an older gun that is as accurate but you'd be hard pressed to find any rifle one or two barrels that is more accurate. All of the Searcy rifles I've shot have been that good.

I should have left out the modern part and said a "well regulated" double.

I would not own a +40 caliber double rifle if I didn't plan to kill big, mean, stomping, scratching, chomping, tusking, goring critters. To have a big bore double and not tote it to Africa on a dangerous game hunt is like keeping a champion German Shorthair only as a house pet. Why own one if you are not going to use it for its intended purpose (unless you want to be seen, in the vernacular of my kids, as a "posure").

Perry

404
I have used bolt rifles all of my life.
Before I got into doubles I owned 2 different 458's, a 416 Rem Mag, and a 416 WBY Mag.

I started looking into doubles because I could never find a bolt Mag rifle that was 1000% sure to always feed or eject.

In fact I was looking at using Ruger No1's in Africa because I did not think I could afford a doouble. Then I started reading books about the old Poachers, read how many times they attributed a double to saving their lives, started watching African hunting videos and I had to ask my self, "How much is MY life worth?"

I now own 3 doubles. A 450 No2, a 450/400 3 1/4", both British, and a Chapuis 9,3x74R [scoped].

It was the best money I ever spent.
I have used them in Texas, Montana, Idaho, Alaska, Canada, and Zimbabwe.

I found the scoped 9,3 to be the equal of a scoped bolt 375.
In fact I like a scoped double so much I just got my 450/400 back from JJ with a S&B 1.1-4 in claw mounts. Boy is it sweet.

As to accuracy, I have taken a coyote at 271 yards and a kudu at a little over 300 with my scoped 9,3.

I have taken caribou with the ironsighted 400 at 85 and 150 yards.

With the iron sighted 450 No2 I have taken a giraffe at 188 yards and an elephant at 120.

I have shot new made doubles by Searcy, Merkel, Krieghoff, Hambrusch, and Chapuis.
I have also shot quite a few pre-War British doubles.
When properly regulated they are all plenty accurate enough.

NOTHING handles better than a British double that fits you correctly.

Only you can decide if a new made or a British double is the best choice for you.

As to calibre.

I have hunted with my doubles quite a bit, It is my personal opinion that a 450/400 with a scope in claw mounts is the best [all round] double for the modern man.

Pull the scope off for big stuff or any stuff up close. "Snap" on the scope for shots in bad light or when trying to thread a bullet through brush.
My 400 has a S&B 1.1-4 with an illuminated reticle.
I had it down at the deer lease this weekend...
I should of had it scoped the day I bought it.

Now if you plan on shooting multiple elephants on several different Safaris, AND you can handle recoil of the 458/458 Lott area then a double in 450 to 470 would be a good choice.

However a 450/400 will be a lot more fun to shoot and if scoped it will be one of the most useful hunting rifles you can own.

I would prefer a 450/400 to ANY bolt rifle of ANY calibre when facing DG.

You can never go wrong with a 450/400.
I know several people who started out with a 470 that later bought a 450/400.
If you get the 450/400 first you just may fine it is the only big bore double you need.
Pair it with a 9,3x74R and you have 2 great hunting rifles.

Why would you not want a double? I have always been a lover of all things fine and good, if they are proven. They may not be as cheap as a bolt gun. But they have what bolt guns lack, "Class". I have many bolt guns so don't hammer me on my choice of words. Back when doubles were the top of the line in reliability the world was a much different place. As far as hunting goes, that world is pretty much gone. It was better back then. Doubles to me are not about practicality, they are more about the hunt. This is what I am. This is what quite a few people here are. We are about the hunt.

If your going to hunt elephant, your first question should be, which type of action will you be most proficient? Elephant hunting is very serious business and is no time to experiment or to use a rifle that you don't use as second nature. I believe you can safely and effeciently hunt elephants with either action type assuming you can use them with equal profeciency. In some cases you may be better off with a fast second shot from a double and in others with the added magazine capacity of a bolt. You can't predict which will occur. Read the thread on PH choices for DG rifles. The 450/400 is a good DG rifle but none of the less than 450 caliber rifles have the stoping power of the bigger bores. I traded my dearly loved 450/400 for a 465 for that reason. If you decide to go with a double realize that you will have a steep learning curve (if you have never used a double with double triggers) compared to a bolt rifle action that you are already use to. Shoot at leat 100 rounds through it with at least 75 of those quick right and lefts followed by a quick reload and then another right and left. One good way to get this practice is to get a double shotgun with double triggers and shoot a weekly round of sporting clays for a couple of months before you leave on your hunt. Doubles are wonderful weapons but for most of us are alien weapons until we practice with it.


465H&H

404WJJeffrey - I'd like to tell you a very sad story about not having followed the urge to buy a double. I was at a gun show in Yuma, Arizona around 1963. The tables were in the horse barn where every exhibitor had his own stall. As I entered this one stall, I saw a rifle case/box open with a piece of paper pinned to it. I approached the display and saw that the case contained a double rifle in .450/400 Nitro. It was a plain rifle, probably what was called an "Army-Navy" rifle, built for British Officers stationed around the globe in the far-flung British Empire. Not a pretty rifle but well taken care of and certainly shootable. I read the letter on the case and it started out like this, I can't remember the exact words, "To whom it may concern, this rifle shoots best with this Lyman cast bullet #XXXXXX, and this many grains of IMR-3031", it went on to say a few more things about the rifle and then was signed, "Sincerely yours, Elmer Keith". I asked the price and the fellow told me "$800.00". That was quite a bit of money for young man fresh out of the Navy, making $2.58 an hour in the USGS as a driller for the Ground Water Branch but, I could get the money. I thought long and hard about it and decided I had better things to do with $800.00, like chasing women and drinking as much beer and tequila as I could. I think you can guess how many mind numbing moments I have had over the ensuing years, mentally toturing myself over that decision. Everyone here is right, you don't need it. BUY THE DAMN THING NOW, IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT!

quote:

404WJJeffrey - I'd like to tell you a very sad story about not having followed the urge to buy a double. I was at a gun show in Yuma, Arizona around 1963. The tables were in the horse barn where every exhibitor had his own stall. As I entered this one stall, I saw a rifle case/box open with a piece of paper pinned to it. I approached the display and saw that the case contained a double rifle in .450/400 Nitro. It was a plain rifle, probably what was called an "Army-Navy" rifle, built for British Officers stationed around the globe in the far-flung British Empire. Not a pretty rifle but well taken care of and certainly shootable. I read the letter on the case and it started out like this, I can't remember the exact words, "To whom it may concern, this rifle shoots best with this Lyman cast bullet #XXXXXX, and this many grains of IMR-3031", it went on to say a few more things about the rifle and then was signed, "Sincerely yours, Elmer Keith". I asked the price and the fellow told me "$800.00". That was quite a bit of money for young man fresh out of the Navy, making $2.58 an hour in the USGS as a driller for the Ground Water Branch but, I could get the money. I thought long and hard about it and decided I had better things to do with $800.00, like chasing women and drinking as much beer and tequila as I could. I think you can guess how many mind numbing moments I have had over the ensuing years, mentally toturing myself over that decision. Everyone here is right, you don't need it. BUY THE DAMN THING NOW, IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT!

Thanks to all for taking the time to post.

577 - I handled a chapuis 9.3x74R at SCI and it felt like a dream.

I also posted a similar inquiry on Nitroexpress.com, and have decided I will trek to Champlin in Enid and handle their various 450/400s, and others too, speak with JJ and then decide which to get.

Many thanks all..

404
I have been using a 9,3x74R Chapuis dounble rifle for several years.
I have 2 scopes fitted in the Chapuis pivot mount, a Leupold 2.5-8 with the heavy duplex and a Swarovski 1.5-6x42 with the circle dot illuminated reticle.
I have hunted the rifle in Texas, Montana, Idaho, Canada, a 21 day Safari, and a 30 day Safari in Zimbabwe.

It is my favorite hunting rifle under 40 cal. It would make an excellent second to a 450/400.

404WJJeffery

Have you found your double yet?

you can get the old 450/400 but you would be better served by a 450 or 470, regardless what others say.

404:

We are having a DRSS get together the Monday to Thursday after DSC.

Some guys are coming just for the day to hang out and shoot with us. The cost to do that, paid to the ranch, is $50.

If you are still on the fence about double, it may serve you well to come and see and shoot, in one single location, many different makes and calibers of DRs.

Just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
you can get the old 450/400 but you would be better served by a 450 or 470, regardless what others say.

God wants you to have a double rifle. Think about it. You have two eyes, two ears, two arms, two legs,...

Noah took two of each animal onto the ark. It takes two to conceive a child.

It was the Good Lord who started the double trend, so why should you question that wisdom and example?

I'm a poor one to ask, I guess, since I took a double to Tanzania on the first over some 35 odd years ago and I've never looked back and sure haven't regretted it or thought I short changed myself. Charge it up to nostagila if nothing else.

When I first got into double rifles I figured they were best for Dangerous Game up close.

However I have learned over the years that for hunting they are the best general purpose rifle around. Better than any other for most all hunting.

I never set out to prove that, I just "discovered" it in the course of using my doubles for all game to get good with them on the Dangerous stuff.

For specialized longer range hunting a bolt or single shot gets the nod.

However for everything else I prefer a double rifle.

If I could only have 2 rifles to hunt with I would pick my 9,3x74R Chapuis and my 450/400 doubles, both are scoped with QD mounts.

I do not mean just to hunt Africa, but to hunt with anywhere.

Jim,
good point,now that I am enlightened,I can see the light,I can finally understand why I had to have two doubles,the Good lord made me do it in his wisdom!
I mean you gotta trust the big guy for he knows what he is doing,I mean that we all could have had just one instead of the two nuts we came with

Bill 74
You have 2 doubles????
What is the second one???

Uh, Tony? This is what happens when you go on safari for so long. Time to catch up a little.
--------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

NE 450 No2,
I bought a Merkel in 470 Nitro for my second DR,I still have not recieved it yet but should get it by this coming monday.
I traded off some of my rifles that I was just not shooting anymore,just could not resist!