Today, same gun makers and general dealers have a test shooting for customers with dangerous game rifles at my dad´s shooting range. You could test 3 different bolt rifles in .416 Rigby, one CZ550 and two Heym Magnum. One Krieghoff double in .500/416 NE, two in .470 NE and two in .500 NE, all from Krieghoff, Merkel and Heym.
The Heym dealer have a new double,the "professional hunter", made in .450/400 NE. This rifle I shoot and I was inspired! This is the next rifle/round combination for my chrismas list The only problem is the price: 12000.-€



Martin

Big Bore Fan ,These get togethers are a God send to prospective double rifle buyers. We have a fairly large group of Double rifle owners, and shooters called Double Rifle Shooter's Scociety, (DRSS). This group have been holding deals like this so new guys had some way to see what different types of doubles, and cartridge sizes are like to shoot. We have members all over the world. ,even one member from Moscow, Russia.

Members of the DRSS, had a lot to do with Heym producing the double rifle chambered for the 450/400NE 3" and I had the pleasure of shooting the first copy of the PH so chambered.
The PH 450/400NE 3" PH Heym is a fine rifle, and you will do no better that this rifle, no matter the price paid.

Chris Sells, owner of heymusa.com of Dallas, Texas, is the main reason that rifle was made, and the barrel lengths, and other features were all a composite of ideas from the ranks of the DRSS. We hosted some of the Heym factory people at one of our wild boar shoots at the 96,000 acre 4K ranch, near Brady, Texas a couple of years ago, and you got to shoot the result in Baveria. Fun isn't it!

Get yourself a Heym 450/400NE 3" PH model, and come join us in Texas!

Hey Mac,

thanks for info. I was always a great Heym fan. The first DGR I shoot, I was 13 or 14 years old, was a Heym Magnum made for the excellent .416 Rigby. I used for my two self made M98 rifles also Heym barrels, one in 10,75x68 and the other in 7x57.

quote:

Get yourself a Heym 450/400NE 3" PH model, and come join us in Texas

I mean, I will never be (financial) able to buy this rifle. My worker income of ~30000.-€ at year, is not enough to buy such expensive things ( My wife will kill me ).
But, every man need dreams. Why you go to work every day, or not.
And,I´m lucky, I have an old double. I found it in the year 2001 at a auktion. An old, pre WW2 Belgium made .405WCF with 26" barrels, double triggers, express sight and a installed 1,5x6 Zeiss scope. It´s not a N.E. rifle, but it´s a lot of fun to shooting with it.
My dad and I have a new project. We have a old Ferlacher double with destroyed barrels and we will rebarrel it to 8x57IRS. For larger rounds, the action is to small. Next year we will start with it. This year we will finish one 9,3x57 M98, restore an old falling block rifle in .25-35WCF and restore an old German target rifle.

Martin

Big Bore Fan,
You are on the right track with the Heym! I understand your situation, but since you and your Dad seem blessed to have the ability to turn a low cost rifle into something worth owning, maybe this is the way to make your dream come true!!!! Buy something cheap, rework it, make a profit, give the wife a little something to make her happy!!!! And set the rest aside towards your double!!!!
I hope that you can make your dream come true!
Best of luck,

LOL No better rifle? Give me a break.

quote:

Originally posted by .500Pro:
LOL No better rifle? Give me a break.

Here's your break!

It is true, 500pro, that you will find more decorated double rifles, and you will find more expensive double rifles with high value names engraved on them. However,if you can find a more servicable, more dependable, or more accurate double rifle, made of better steel, regardless of price, then I'd be interested in the name of that rifle!

I've owned just about every name double over the last fifty years since I bought my first one, and for all practical purposes, the Heym will still be working fine in the next 100 yrs, with proper care, just like the a Purdey, or H&H, at 1/5th the price. I'm not saying the old Britts are not worth their collector price, but in the bush with a mad Cape Buffalo, the collector value is meaningless!

The origenal poster is looking for a GOOD, DEPENDABLE, double rifle in a GOOD chambering, that a HUNTER of modest means can afford without hitting the LOTTO, and still be able to hunt Africa a couple times! Somehow I tend to think he is far more interested in dependability, and shootability, than NAMES, or decoration, and "LOOK AT WHAT I CAN AFFORD" bling!

quote:

LOL No better rifle

What´s a better rifle? The quality of a good double is not, how many decorations on it or how big the chambered round is. I shoot same big guns for regulation and guns over a .500/416 or the .470 are too heavy for me. But this is all a personal setting.
For me, a rifle must look like the old classics (not like a Blaser S2), hold a good group at 50/100m and must be reliably. For me, the .450/400 is one of the best well-balanced rounds made for DG. Like the .375 H&H, I mean it´s enough for good shooters to hunt in africa.
My new plan is, I have a friend, I help him at his gun auctions every year and I will ask him, to get a used "working" rifle chambered for this round.

Martin

quote:

find a more servicable, more dependable, or more accurate double rifle, made of better steel, regardless of price,

Sorry Mac but I think it is important to introduce people to other options. Especially new members in Germany as a Ferlach guns are available new and used. Also Krieghoff and Chapuis come to mind as fine firearms that are also proven As far as servicebility and dependbility, they tell the good but rarely the bad espesially when someone is selling a rifle.


This part of the board has a least 3 dealer and there fans working it that sells one over the other and am always disipointed that we do not hear more about other options. Well unfortunatly this board can be sometimes like a gun magazine and when is the last time you saw a negative gun review.

Kreighoff will chamber 450/400 I believe if not already then on special order.

Yes as an owner of a Heym and Kriegs and past Chapuis and all on $40K a year salary (warped retirement plan)I feel that here are to many factors to consider what is the "Best" rifle for anyone person.

I find the reason some buy the Heym over another maker is money only "Bling" and as to wether it is injectors invectors extracos lol action type, barrel and wedge construction are not of importance.

I believe there are more option and the NEAT thing is what makes these doubles different and us compare and talking about them and new people wanting information that we can learn from.

Serious Question

Mac what I need to KNOW is are you comfy with the 450/400 on Hippo in sugarcane, as you are a 7K+ poster I was wanting your opinion. As I have been backup on 2 hunts one with the shooter with a 375 Chapuis and the other with a 500 and I will never do that on a 375 again but would with a 500 at anytime. The 375 was way under powered and the 500 whacked him and both had good shot placement. I was wondering if you can shed some light for me as I can only carry one gun.

Cheers

As this has turned into a "dependable, accurate, serviceable and affordable 450/400" post.
Does anyone know if Merkel is to camber this calibre?

Adam as you know Merkel have its Rigby in 400 class, however if they ever drop it I believe they will move towards 500/416 NE first - Norma's PH line allready loads one and not without a cause, no 400/450 - yet - but lets wait and see - market demand will tell.

When the ammo comes (steady supply)the rifles will follow. I hope this is not like the .376 Steyr with Hornady the rifle and cartridge lost steam and I didn't think the year behind on ammo helped. I was a little suprised of ammo was not available in Jan during the show to the general public. But if only Heym is in the game then not a problem. But this issue would make less people to press the other makers to build (maybe). Is this a servicebilty issue? because we know it can't be an affordability issue.

quote:

Originally posted by .500Pro:
[[QUOTE]Originally posted by .500Pro:
find a more servicable, more dependable, or more accurate double rifle, made of better steel, regardless of price,
Sorry Mac but I think it is important to introduce people to other options. Especially new members in Germany as a Ferlach guns are available new and used. Also Krieghoff and Chapuis come to mind as fine firearms that are also proven As far as servicebility and dependbility, they tell the good but rarely the bad espesially when someone is selling a rifle.

500pro, Those are all in the same class as the Heym, and as you say are fine rifles, but as I said are no better than the Heym. The reason I told the original poster he wouldn’t find a better, more accurate, dependable rifle regardless of price, has nothing to do with the names you mention, but was aimed at those who fufu anything other than Best grade English double rifles. They look nicer, but are not in any way better in the features I mentioned. I find the German, and Austrian double rifles to be right on par with the best grade English doubles as far as usability, and durability, at a much lower price.

quote:

This part of the board has a least 3 dealer and there fans working it that sells one over the other and am always disappointed that we do not hear more about other options. Well unfortunately this board can be sometimes like a gun magazine and when is the last time you saw a negative gun review.

I agree that there are those here who push only one brand, and those are usually those stuck in the “If it ain’t British, it ain’t worth owning†crowd, and if you do a search of my posts for the last seven or eight years, you will find plenty of my post stating that Britton is not the only place where good dependable, and usable double rifles are made. I have some German doubles that are well over 100 yrs old, and are still tight and on face, and have never been in a shop for repair ! I’ve owned Heym, Ferlach, H. Berella Merkel, Simpson, and many other field grade doubles over the years, and found them all to be excellent in quality, and dependability. Again in my past posts you will see I always advise those new to double rifles, to buy “NEW†or “NEW USED†rather than getting into the collector names, because they have no experience with this type of rifle, they can get burned badly, with some of the DOLLED UP JUNK that is on the collector market.

quote:

Kreighoff will chamber 450/400 I believe if not already then on special order.

Yes as an owner of a Heym and Kriegs and past Chapuis and all on $40K a year salary (warped retirement plan)I feel that here are to many factors to consider what is the "Best" rifle for anyone person.[/QUOTE

I agree, that those “NEW†as opposed to old Britt rifles are the way to go, and all those rifles are fine working rifles, and all are in the same class, as I said above. There is no argument here!
[QUOTE] I find the reason some buy the Heym over another maker is money only "Bling" and as to wether it is injectors invectors extracos lol action type, barrel and wedge construction are not of importance.

500pro , the rifle being discussed here in this thread is the Heym PH model, and if you can find another double rifle with less “BLING†I certainly love to know about it. Any of those brands you mention can be bought with BLING if that is what you want, but bling, doesn’t make the rifle any better, it only means you had more money before you bought it, and a lot less after! I’ve owned three Heym rifles, and not one was more than border engraved, and the I have owned some very decorated Westley Richards double rifles, that wouldn’t shoot with a little H. Berella that I paid no more than $1K for used. IOW, BEST is as BEST does, and decoration is not in the equation.

quote:

I believe there are more option and the NEAT thing is what makes these doubles different and us compare and talking about them and new people wanting information that we can learn from.

I can do that with just about any make or grade you want to name, but this poster was asking about a rifle he had already decided is what he wants. He wants a Heym, and with the Heym being as good as any of the others you mention, I offered him a positive assessment of that particular rifle, one that I have personally handled, and shot, not from left field!

quote:

Serious Question

Mac what I need to KNOW is are you comfy with the 450/400 on Hippo in sugarcane, as you are a 7K+ poster I was wanting your opinion. As I have been backup on 2 hunts one with the shooter with a 375 Chapuis and the other with a 500 and I will never do that on a 375 again but would with a 500 at anytime. The 375 was way under powered and the 500 whacked him and both had good shot placement. I was wondering if you can shed some light for me as I can only carry one gun.

Cheers

500pro , first off let me say a 450/400NE 3†is a far cry above a 375 in killing power, and as you say the 500NE is better in a close encounter of the BITE BACK kind, but the 500NE is no guarantee of stopping a hippo, unless the brain, or spine is hit! If that target is hit it make little difference what you are shooting. With body shots, the shooter will get some practice in the shooting and reloading of his double rifle, regardless of chambering. Top that off with the fact that there is one real factor in shooting dangerous animals in close quarters, and that is being able to shoot the rifle instinctively, and on target. That is far easier with a rifle that is lighter, with less recoil, yet has enough to take care of the job. A 400 gr bullet on target, is worth ten marginal shots,with a .500, that only tend to enrage the animal. A hippo will not be put down by shock of muzzle energy, regardless of caliber. Like you for the hunting I do, the 500NE double is more usefull on things like Hippo, or Elephant, but for buffalo, the 450/400NE 3†double is fine.
The poster who started this thread, however, is not likely to have to fend off a hippo in the sugarcane, and will use his rifle mostly in Europe. It is my opinion, the a 500NE would be a little out of place for all around European hunting, with MAYBE one trip to Africa. The probability of never being able to hunt Africa, being stated by the poster himself.

I have some nice Britt rifles, but my pair for Africa, are a pair of Merkel double rifles, that consist of a 140E 9.3X74R, and a 140-2 Safari 470NE . I find them to be far easier to replace if lost or stolen, that any old Britt, and both rifles cost me less that $12K, for the pair. The one thing I’d say is the 470NE in my opinion, is it produces almost as much recoil as the 500NE, but is not a effective, again in my opinion. I’d rather have the 450/400NE 3â€, or the 500NE than the 470NE.

Still I think you and I agrre far more than you think! I also believe there are a lot of good double rifles out there for the first time buyer, but I still reccomend the guy new to doubles buy new, or a used NEWLY MADE double rifl till he gets a little experience!

Mac thanks for BEING THERE. No really LOL you and many of the guys on here give me a reason to take time and get out of the rat race and think about what I love. And yes it is hard to find anyone here or around guns that has your consistency in giving well rounded info.

Now I just got to find someone with a 450/400 that will let this loudmouth (me) shoot it. This 450/400 is like Malaria and I just got bit, you know that little flu you get about 48 hours after you get bit up in the blind to let you know it is time to go to the doctor for medicine or the big one is comin.

Stay on Hornady to make alot of ammo, cause if im buyin I want alot to start with.

Till the next time

I have used the 450-400-3" and 3 1/4" for a decade or two!

It is my hands down favorite double rifle caliber, and I have never seen it lacking in killing power on any animal. The combination of light weight, slim and trim, shotgun handling qualities and good weight bullet at substantial velocity has resurected this old dog from it English grave, and rightly so. It may the the number one seller these days even over the grand .470....

My other favorite and for those who like a bit more poop, why I don't know, is the great 450-3 1/4" also a really nice caliber..

Not saying there is a thing wrong with the other calibers just that these are what I prefer.

quote:

Now I just got to find someone with a 450/400 that will let this loudmouth (me) shoot it.

Update your profile to reflect your location and you never know what good hearted soul might be close by with a .450/400 for you to try out.

My father and I have have both met up with guys in the DR market and let them try out our guns. That's what the DRSS is all about.