I just came across a picture of my grandfather, taken in India in 1931.

A separate note says that he was going to hunt nilgai "blue bull". It also says he was unsuccessful on this day, but did succeed in getting one on another occasion, on foot! Note the double rifle! Any ideas from you experts?
Perhaps he would be proud to know that I had double rifles!
Not a bad looking horse either!
Thanks, Peter.

If you look at the frame in relation to the size of the barrels it looks like a 500BPE.

What a cool thing to find. The rifle has a distinct Alex henrey look to it to me. Damn I love those Henreys

I used to live in Jacksonville. At the beach for a couple of yrs, then moved to Hodges blvd between Atlantic and Beach blvd.

What a neat find! Did he ever tell you of 'the good old days" ?

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
I just came across a picture of my grandfather, taken in India in 1931.

A separate note says that he was going to hunt nilgai "blue bull". It also says he was unsuccessful on this day, but did succeed in getting one on another occasion, on foot! Note the double rifle! Any ideas from you experts?
Perhaps he would be proud to know that I had double rifles!
Not a bad looking horse either!
Thanks, Peter.

It is a back action side lock hammer double rifle. It looks to have at least 28" barrels, and they look to be very slender Damascus, so is likely a 450BPE, or NFB! Make could be just about anything, but looks suspiciously German! I have a V. Haffner that looks almost exactly the same, only mine is a Jones under lever!

this picture is so cool. peter i envy you a lot thanks for showing.
the dbl. rifle in combination with the horse reeks of class.

do you have any more photos like this please show them.

best regards

peter

Gentlemen, thanks very much for your guesses about the double gun, and your comments. I never knew my grandfather, he died in 1939, but, by all accounts, he was a class act. I have very little in the way of photographs or mementos as we lost everything in 1947 (Partition) when we were evacuated out by the RAF with just 2 suitcases, leaving behind an entire household (and house)! However, he wrote 2 books titled "Deeds of Valour Performed by Indian Officers and Soldiers" the second book dealt with the period 1860-1925 and includes the "Great War". The accounts of cavalry actions in "Mesopotamia" are interesting as Indian cavalry was just about all Allenby had left after he took Jerusalem and was stripped of most of troops for the European theatre. He dedicated the second book to "Field-Marshal Sir William Riddell Birdwood, Commander in Chief, India the Patron, Friend and Comrade of the Indian Soldier". Paternalistic? Perhaps, but who else took the time to document these actions.
MacD, what is NFB? What do Alex Henry's cost these days?
Thanks, Peter.

To me it looks more like a black powder shotgun rather than a rifle. I don't see and front or rear sights on it. Also the action doesn't look deep enough for a rifle, but I'm simply guessing here. Also the barrels look more like they are 30" in length.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
To me it looks more like a black powder shotgun rather than a rifle. I don't see and front or rear sights on it. Also the action doesn't look deep enough for a rifle, but I'm simply guessing here. Also the barrels look more like they are 30" in length.

465H&H

That was my thought, too.
------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

To me it looks more like a black powder shotgun rather than a rifle. I don't see and front or rear sights on it. Also the action doesn't look deep enough for a rifle, but I'm simply guessing here. Also the barrels look more like they are 30" in length.

+2 here. My thought too. Why? Because I think that if it had been a double rifle it would have had an underlever in this type rather than a top lever as this weapon appears to do.

Also the barrels appear too much to be equal diameter for too long for it to be a rifle. And it appears too "lightweight" in the way it is being held to look much over 7lbs or so.

quote:

what is NFB?

Nitro for black, a nitro (smokeless) proof for a black powder equivalent. An NFB rifle would use a smokeless powder charge to achieve the original black powder performance.

I am sure I mangled this but you get the idea.

I've been looking at a reprint of a 1926 Manton catalog. I'll see if there's a picture of a gun resembling the one. A thought: most of the shotguns in the catalog are described as 'ball and shot' guns, intended for round ball as well as shot. There's an entire page written on Manton's round ball shells that could be fired in choked guns as well.

Presumably, quite a few hunters used ball for hunting big game to have these Indian market shotguns configured this way. Bob

Gentlemen, I have no inside knowledge that it is indeed a rifle! I just assumed that, given the game sought. I agree that the barrels are very long, and the absence of sights would indicate a shotgun, especially one that could shoot ball. Now I have to find another reason to buy an Alex Henry!
Thanks for all your time and help, I appreciate it. Your analyses were a real eye opener!
Peter.

500 bpe underlever

Wow! Thanks Frank. Except for the pistol grip it sure looks close to my eyes. The underlever is not big at all.
Peter.

On a recent trip back to England I came across this at a cousin's house:


A silver cup (hallmarked of course!) that he won in 1912. It reads "Simla Volunteer Rifles Officers Cup 1912". He casts a long shadow.
Peter.

Do you have a copy of his book?


Deeds of valour of the Indian soldier which won the Indian Order of Merit during the period from 1837 to 1859 (including the Indian Mutiny)

Author: P P Hypher
ISBN: B0000CQN2O 1925


Evidently only 500 copies were printed and bound.


On the rifle, right-clicking the image, clicking 'show image', then maximizing the view -- then holding 'control' and the + key to blow the picture up as big as I can, it appears to me that those are island locks, not back action locks. It also looks like the forend has a forward-facing Rigby style catch lever.
Could be Rigby, Woodward, Purdey...



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
To me it looks more like a black powder shotgun rather than a rifle. I don't see and front or rear sights on it. Also the action doesn't look deep enough for a rifle, but I'm simply guessing here. Also the barrels look more like they are 30" in length.

465H&H

Perhaps its a paradox? You can clearly see a front sling loop.

All around cool!!!

Hunting Nilgai - a 500 BPE would do the trick for sure....Also might have been some sort of "Explora" conical slug round from a ball and shot set-up....No matter, just a really cool find!

JW

A tinkerer, I believe that I have a scanned copy in PDF. Let me know if you are interested in seeing it. The family has a few hard copies of the book, but they are not going anywhere. As I mentioned, it may seem paternalistic to us moderns in the post colonial era, but this was written a long time ago, with I believe, genuine respect and affection.
Peter.

Peter-

Thanks for the offer.
I will PM you my email address, I'm sure the file you have will make it through.
These period texts and accounts always have some special gems of information in them. They're a great way to get into perspective of the men who were out in the tall grass back in the Golden Age.

Take a close look at that photograph with a magnifying glass or loupe.
It really does appear to me that the rifle has island locks, a sign of the best top-shelf work and very much a sign of style and distinction.



Cheers
Tinker