Just want to share some info:
I was speaking to Mr Searcy today and was asking about some AR scuttlebut I heard/read that it may be unwise to use solids in his rifles.
He debunked that Big Time. Said it was not true and never was.
Said if any one of his rilfs had a problem shooting solids, he would correct the problem.
Said his son recently shot an elephant using a North Fork Cup Point solid.

Bob, Butch is a member of this forum and posts here relatively often. Any AR scuttlebut has been debunked a long time ago. You might want to do a search
Peter.

Bob....I have 2 of Butch's rifles....ain't hurt mine yet!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

Butch has always said that even Barnes monolithic Bronze solids with no pressure rings are safe in his rifles. As far as the North forks, they are safe in any double rifle that has the proper bore measurements. The North Forks that fit the rifle are easier on the barrels than the older origenal steel jacket, lead core solids.

This in no way "DEBUNKS" the fact that many rifles have been damaged by the use of the Bronze Mono-metal solids that are not made with relief grooves for a place for the displaced material by engraving by the rifleing to go. B. Searcy is the only double rifle maker I know of that actually recomends un-grooved mono-metal solids in their product. I know several people who use the old style mono-metal super solids in their Searcy doubles seemingly with no damage. Of course Butch rifles have barrels that are properly bored. Some of the older,and even some newer brands are not that consistant.

Not with my luck...

I will stick with Woodleigh's.

Rich

Shooting those old solid brass solids is not a good idea, regardless. The only way it can make no difference is if the barrels are thick, which equates to heavy, which equates to .....

Jacketed solids and some banded solids are better for a rifle, though all solids produce higher pressures.

I want to add to my findings:
Butch said he uses PAcNor barrels exclusively for his double rifles.
I wanted to be making the best bullet selection when I got to reloading, and to do that, I needed to know the exact bore and groove diameters for the 470 Nitro Express Mr Searcy is making for me.
I called PacNor and asked one of their subject matter experts about the dimensions of their barrels that are used for the 470 NE. (PacNor refers to those barrels as 475s)
PacNor said the major (grooves) diameter of their barrels is 0.475 inches.
PacNor also said the minor (lands) diameter of their barrels is 0.4655 inches.
PacNor did not provide tolerance variables, so I am sure that the numbers can be over or under by a small ammount. I would expect that they hold within 2 ten thousandths.

Based on the fact that all the data I found for the 470 NE shows the bullet as 0.474 diameter, and most commercial bullets are manufactured with that diameter as the target diameter for finished bullets.
The fact that PAcNor barrels are 1 thou larger can be expected to result in reduced pressure.

Regardless of all that the specs show, and all the data that PacNor provides, it is always a good idea to "slug" your barrel. That actual measurement not only provides you with a discussion topic while sitting around the camp fire, but can be significant if you are going to buy a bullet mold or cast your own bullets, and especially if you plan to have some bullets custom made for your rifle.
Bob Nisbet
Technology Protection Engineer
Supporting Army Aviation
Army Research and Technology Protection Center
Redstone Arsenal, Alabama 35801
Office: 256-876-1939
Cell: 256-797-4153
eMail: Robert.Nisbet1@US.Army.Mil

Hay Mac,
I have revised my opinion on the solid bullets. With all the good banded bullets out there I see no reason to use the non banded solid (monometal).
By the way I get more presure out of Woodliegh solids than any of the banded bullets I,ve used.

quote:

Originally posted by Butch Searcy:
Hay Mac,
I have revised my opinion on the solid bullets. With all the good banded bullets out there I see no reason to use the non banded solid (monometal).
By the way I get more presure out of Woodliegh solids than any of the banded bullets I,ve used.

"By the way I get more presure out of Woodliegh solids than any of the banded bullets I,ve used."


I would expect that.


What was the difference ?

Any data ?

quote:

Originally posted by Butch Searcy:
Hay Mac,
I have revised my opinion on the solid bullets. With all the good banded bullets out there I see no reason to use the non banded solid (monometal).
By the way I get more presure out of Woodliegh solids than any of the banded bullets I,ve used.

Thanks Butch! I use only North Fork solids in my doubles today, But I use a lot of double cavity soft points as well. I think the North Fork CPS is about the best Buffalo bullet on the market. In smaller chamberings I use a lot of Nosler Partitions! I used the Barnes old Super solids one time, and got a lot of pressure making the action sticky to open, and still have what is left of that box after 15 yrs.

"Shooting Solids in a Searcy DR"

Dont do it--you might kill somthing!!!!

Butch,

Can you tell me your recommended powder charge for both Woodleigh conventional solids and also North Fork banded solids for 470 using 4831?

Thanks

Muletrain

When I use Woodleigh solids, I drop 1 or 2 grains,
(from the load used for the Woodleigh SN, test the load to make sure all is OK and it has been so far.

Hope that helps.

This morning I got a call from one of the North Fork owners, Mr Jurva.
We talked about their bullets.
Here are a few very positive comments he made:
- North Fork makes 470 NE bullets in at least two diameters. The traditional .474 and .475 diameter.
- When someone is ordering 470 NE bullets from NF, the preferred diameter should be called out. (Example: Searcy DRs use PacNor barrels with a major bore dia of .475, so for those DRs, request the .475 bullets.)
- NF is willing to make 400 grain solids or 400 grain cup point bullets, they would just need enough folks to show an interest, which can be just an email to them.
- NF bullets are what they call bore-riding, meaning that the relief cuts in their bullets are such that the minor diameter created by the barrel grooves do not touch the body of the bullet, only the driving bands actually touch inside the barrel.

quote:

minor diameter created by the barrel grooves do not touch the body of the bullet

What you mean is the barrel lands do not touch the bullet body.

Yeah, means the same thing. Sorry.