Recently there was a post about the weight of certain double guns. Unfortunately I cannot find that post so I am starting another thread. here are the weights of mine, all with scopes:
Krieghoff Classic Big Five 500/416 11 pounds 5 oz. (inc. Leupold 2-7x scope)
Blaser S2 in 500NE 12 pounds 11 oz. (inc. Zeiss 1.5-4.5x in QD mounts)
M.K.Owen in 450 x 3 1/4 14 pounds 5 oz. (inc. Swarowski scope)

IMHO the most comfortable rifle to shoot is the Blaser in 500NE, but, I have not chrono'ed those loads (see previous posts). The Owen is more comfortable to shoot than the K gun and the recovery time is faster.
The K gun has the slimmest receiver, by far.
Peter.

Why must you torture me so by tempting me to comment on rifle weights?

Because you won't sell me an elephant hide wallet for $50!!!!
The beatings will continue until morale improves!
Peter.

Peter, you have really hit on something here. I have always been an advocate of NOT putting a scope on a double except perhaps a 9.3X74. Because doubles have two barrels instead of one like a bolt rifle, they most often run heavier to start with. A scope on a double just adds more weight. My Krieghoff .500/.416 weighs in at around 10.5 lbs and my Blaser .470 weighs in at 11.5 lbs. I would never dream about putting a scope on either. IMHO the best combination is a light, scoped bolt gun like a .375 or better yet, a 9.3X62 in COMBINATION with a heavy double. You can then use the bolt gun for the longer shots and take over the double in heavy cover or when following up a wounded animal. Putting a scope on a double destroys the utility of the open sights which allow for much more rapid target acquisition.

Dave I don't want to bust your chops but I'm trying to wrap my brain around how a double rifle with a scope and q/d mounts weigh more than both a double rifle and a bolt rifle with a scope?
I guess on the primus that a tracker would be carring one while you carry the other then that makes since and may be not a bad idea but for me if I did that (and I have) I would still have the scope option on the double. I don't find a low powered scope to be a disadvantage up close.
I hunted with a Rigby double (9.3x74)for driven boar in France one time and most of the hunters took their scopes off but for me I found I would do better with the optics, Just go's to show each to their own.




Here's a story that has some irony I was hunting Eland one time and had a bolt gun and a double. I had planned on shooting the Eland with my bolt gun (.458) but the bull was about 150 yards and I needed to get a good sight picture because he was in some shade with branches around him.
I used the double because it was the one with the scope on.

OK, to continue the discussion, here some pictures:

Krieghoff, 500/416. Note the slim receiver:


M.K Owen, 450 x 3 1/4



Blaser S2 500NE, note the slim looking receiver:


BTW the scope and QD mounts weigh 1 pound 8 oz.

To add some new items:
Tikka 512SD in 9.3x74R weight 10 pounds 5 oz.



And finally my CZ bolt action in 416 Rigby, weighs 10 pounds 5 oz.:



There HAS to be more here than just the weight of the extra barrel! Dave, not busting your chops here. I was surprised when I weighed my CZ bolt gun. I did add a muzzle brake, but I also lopped off some the front end of the barrel as well.
I agree with the scoped bolt gun and double combination, however my Blaser and scope combination is just sweet and fast The size of the ocular lens is what seems to make the difference IMHO
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Recently there was a post about the weight of certain double guns. Unfortunately I cannot find that post so I am starting another thread. here are the weights of mine, all with scopes:
Krieghoff Classic Big Five 500/416 11 pounds 5 oz. (inc. Leupold 2-7x scope)
Blaser S2 in 500NE 12 pounds 11 oz. (inc. Zeiss 1.5-4.5x in QD mounts)
M.K.Owen in 450 x 3 1/4 14 pounds 5 oz. (inc. Swarowski scope)

IMHO the most comfortable rifle to shoot is the Blaser in 500NE, but, I have not chrono'ed those loads (see previous posts). The Owen is more comfortable to shoot than the K gun and the recovery time is faster.
The K gun has the slimmest receiver, by far.
Peter.

The rifles on your list that I colored RED are about right for the caliber! The MK Owen colored in blue, would be weighted about right for a double rifle cambered for a 577NE, but is far too heavy for a 450NE 3 1/4". MK Owen makes a fine double rifle, but he builds them way too heavy. IMO he does that because they are easier to regulate the barrels when building them. A 450NE 3 1/4" should weigh in at around 10.5 pounds bare, and at no more then 11.5 pounds scoped and loaded.

The weight of a double rifle bare is the weight that you should worry about first, and if you scope it, then you need to look very hard at the scopes you are choosing from. The scope properly utilized on a double rifle should be the lightest scope you can buy that will take the recoil, and be mounted as low to the top of the rib as is possible, be mounted in quick detach mounts that return to zero with out exception.

With a bolt rifle the scope is the primary sighting system, and the Iron sights are back-up for a damaged scope.

The double rifle, however, is a whole different animal, and is designed for it's primary sighting system to be the iron sights, with a scope as a specialty sighting system to be attached for specialty situations. The scope on a double needs to be low powered, and needs a bold reticule, lighted if possible. The double rifle is carried mostly without the scope attached when working dangerous game in less open country. The scope to be attached when the light is beginning to fail, or when one needs the thread a bullet through a hole in the brush to the target when it is the only clear path to the vitals. Tiny sticks that are in the way are sometimes not visible with the naked eye, and the tiniest twig will deflect a very heavy bullet enough at times to get you a wounded Cape buffalo or elephant. Something you don't want.

The tracker will carry a busted scope off your bolt and you will finish the hunt with the iron sights, and he will also carry the undamaged scope for your double while you carry your double with iron sights till you need the scope. Both sights are back-up for the other no matter which type rifle you are hunting with, if you are properly armed!

The only reason a scope was not use on the old English doubles is because they were not available, but once they were, both irons, and scopes were used by smart hunters of BITE-BACK animals a long way from a gunsmith, or home.

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I tend to agree with most of what you say, Mac. I think my main concern for the first shot with a double would be to make it is a good one ie. I don't wound the animal that then gets away. That is why I favor a good scope. Additionally, based on some videos that I have seen, there is no telling at what distance that first shot will be, especially for buff. It can be any distance but more commonly seems to be anywhere up to 100 yards.For follow up on a wounded DG animal I think one would have time to remove the scope, especially as there seems to be a wait time before following up. Just my inexperienced thoughts. In any case when I go I will have a bolt gun (either a 416 Rigby or a 375 H&H) plus the double.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Why must you torture me so by tempting me to comment on rifle weights?

Bet I could guess what those comments would be.

I think EVERY double rifle up to and including the 450/400, and the 500/416 should have a scope in QD mounts.

My 9,3x74R and my 450/400 3 1/4" are both scoped.