I had my bores slugged at www.griffinhowe.com and sent the slugs and the measurements

to www.gscustom.co.za a couple of weeks ago. Gerard has informed me that he has them now

and will start to do his measuremnts and what ever else so he can determine what diameter

bullets to make for me. Don't forget, he can custom size the driving bands and the shanks also,

resulting in the best possible sizing. I am anxious and excited!!!

Were you have accuracy issues in your rifle due to "non-standard" or worn bores?

I only have fired 10 rounds from this rifle and accuracy was fine.

The rounds came from superior ammo and were his standard loading

using woodleigh soft nose bullets. I am curious why you ask your

question.

Jack,

Only a guess, but maybe Sid was thinking like I was. If the gun shoots off the shelf bullets why bother with anything else.

I'm a traditionalist with my vintage guns. They only get fed convential core bullets like Woodleighs, Hornadys, Hawks, etc. Primarily softs and only Woodleigh solids to develop a load, confirm the regulation and hunt if the gasme call for solids.

Not worth the risk with the new bullet technology vs barrel damage in a double. I'll shoot those in my bolt guns.

Just my 2 cents.

BigFiveJack,
Good deal.
Sid and 470Evans are obviously unaware that the GSC driving band structure is even easier
on your double rifle barrels than the Woodleigh softs.
Way healthier for your double than steel FMJ solids also.

You will thus have the best possible solid, the GSC FN, for use in a double.
Will you also try the GSC HV soft of same monometal band structure?

The question is, how much load adjustment and fiddling will it take
to get the right POI for the regulation?

Precision match by Gerard to your bore and groove specs will give potential for best accuracy
and least barrel stress and wear.

Best for doubles new or old:

GSC FN and HV (if they regulate)
and
ditto the North Fork FlatPoint and CupPoint banded copper solids
but
not the "grooved" North Fork SP "soft" with solid copper shank and sawtooth microgrooves.
The North Fork soft may be the best controlled-expansion bullet ever created for a single-barreled rifle,
but not for a double.

Use the Woodleigh soft without reservation.
Use Woodleigh steel FMJ as little as possible.

No other bullets need apply except those mentioned above.

Jack:

I agree entirely with .470 Evans.
-----------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Jack,
The Luddites are telling you that "progress" is not possible with a double rifle.

IIRC, the 450/400 and 450 NE's had a relatively fast twist at birth, as far back as 1898 for the latter.
Another reason they succeeded so well despite the inferior bullets of yore.
One twist in 14 or 15 inches.
That is more than fast enough,
even for GSC monometal copper.

Some are stuck in the past.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:


Jack,
The Luddites are telling you that "progress" is not possible with a double rifle.

IIRC, the 450/400 and 450 NE's had a relatively fast twist at birth, as far back as 1898 for the latter.
Another reason they succeeded so well despite the inferior bullets of yore.
One twist in 14 or 15 inches.
That is more than fast enough,
even for GSC monometal copper.

Some are stuck in the past.

Hilarious. If that's "progress" to you...FOR SALE: Beach House on the Moon. Major shopping mall nearby! Only $20 Million.
--------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Situation hopeless but not serious.

Thanks guys. Here's where my head is. I am getting more and more "old fashioned" every day.

I love the look of pre WWI cars, airplains. trains, double rifles, etc. I have old fashioned

values too. At the same time I know that we can and do learn as time goes by. The descriptions

that I've read, and all that I've seen of G S Custom bullets gives me good reasons to give them

a try in my old Brit double. Of course we want bullets that put the LEAST stress on our old DR's.

But surely they must shoot straight and kill well and so on. Now the old fashioned Woodleigh

softs are reported by all as being not too stressful on the DR's, but the solids according to

many reports should be used as little as possible. BARNES, A-Square and a list of others should

be out of the question. But, these www.gscustom.co.za and North Fork to a slightly less degree

than the GSC can be pushed through the barrel of your rifle using a wooden dowel with FAR less

effort than the Woodleigh soft. This driving band design was tested by 500 Grains some time back

and he reported that the presure was lowest with GSC and just a bit higher with NF and clearly

higher came from using the Woodleigh soft. This was not theory BS, this was what the tests showed.

So, even though I hate to admit it because I AM such a fan of the old ways, the bullets that go

through a barrel that DON'T get engraved on their shafts because the shafts are under the size of

the rifling lands, but only get engraved on their skinny driving bands, produce less pressure than

traditional Woodleigh type bullets, AND, my logic tells me they'll stress my old DR LESS than Wood-

leighs! So if I am right then I am doing a service to my rifle and myself by opting for GSC or NF

bullets. And I say again, the tests reveal what they reveal. We must accept that things sometimes

can be made better. Again, I DON'T LIKE IT, but it seems that the truth is that the GSC and NF

driving band bullets are in fact the wiser choice for the well being of the rifle. I compare

it to synthetic motor oil vs traditional motor oil for our car engines. We shall see. Thanks again

to all for your contributions here. [GSC penetrated elephant skulls better than Woodleigh solids

did per some tesing that I read also]

To add a bit more about these TRUE driving band design bullets; the bands are such that

the metal that is engraved and displaced by the rifling as it engages the bands is pushed into

empty space. So as a result the bbls and ribs and solder and all should be stressed less than

they would when Woodleigh softs go through the bbls. Again this is how it all appears to me

from a logic stand point.

quote:

Not worth the risk with the new bullet technology vs barrel damage in a double.

quote:

I agree entirely with .470 Evans.

Gentlemen,
In feeding a double it is important to reduce the magnitude of radial expansion of the barrel as the bullet moves down the bore. The less the barrel expands, the easier it on the joints between the ribs and the barrel being fired and the unfired barrel on the opposite side.

Radial expansion of the barrel comes from two sources. Firstly the pressure between the bullet and the inside of the barrel and secondly the pressure that builds behind the bullet to drive it.

If the pressure to drive the bullet can be made to peak slower/later, the pressure rise is spread over a larger surface and that is better. The latest pressure peak of all types of bullet construction is seen with GSC drive band bullets.

Barrel wall pressure that results from the bullet itself is more complex.

Lead core bullets obturate the barrel to effect a proper gas seal. The pressure that drives the bullet compresses the lead core, causing the bullet to expand radially. A typical groove / land diameter difference is 0.009". The combined force of the radial expansion of a lead core bullet and the force of compression of a steel jacket, to a depth of 0.009", in the opposite direction, will typically cause a modern barrel to yield about 0.0016" outwards. Older and softer barrels will yield more. Remember that the displacement of jacket material into the core volume, works in the opposite direction to the linear compression of the bullet. Displacement of jacket material into the core volume, requires the core to lengthen in order to maintain the same volume. The pressure driving the bullet and the pressure of engraving are opposing forces and must be contained by the barrel.

With harder bullets, the bullet will not compress lengthwise from gas pressure behind it. Therefore radial expansion of the bullet is not a factor. Only the force required by the displacement of bullet material by the rifling is present. That displacement of material into the body of the bullet lengthens the bullet. If the bullet resists linear compression well, it will also resist linear extension well. Linear extension is resisted by the bullet material as well as the pressure driving the bullet. To minimise this pressure, some manufacturers make bullets under size for the caliber. This causes gas to blow past the bullet all the way to the muzzle. It serves the purpose of delaying the pressure peak and that is an advantage. The trade off is increased gas cutting of the throat and bore. The pressure of bullet material compression into the bullet volume still remains and all the pressure is borne by the faces of the lands of the barrel. An under size bullet will exert no pressure on the barrel wall in the bottom of the grooves because there is no contact there.

Enough of this and sooner or later a double will go out of regulation or delaminate. Sometimes later and sometimes sooner.

Now consider a bullet that is manufactured to the diameter between the faces of the lands of a barrel. You could drop it into the chamber end and smoothly push it by hand, all the way down the bore and out of the muzzle, with the lightest of pressure. Such a bullet would have an incredible amount of gas blow by - unless you add a series of thin bands to seal the barrel against gas blow by. These bands around the shank of the bullet need not be compressed into the volume of the body of the bullet by the rifling. The space behind the band is wide enough so that the drive band material is pushed back into that space. Almost like a gate that opens and swings aside. The bullet does not try to lengthen and there is only the lightest of pressure on the faces of the lands and in the bottoms of the grooves. This is what you have with a GSC drive band bullet.

Prove it to yourself by doing this test.

If a GSC drive band bullet hangs up in the bore, we will pay your gunsmith to remove it. If you hang up another brand of bullet in the bore, you are on your own.

Thanks for the details Gerard. I feel this
information is as logical as arithmetic.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:


Jack,
The Luddites are telling you that "progress" is not possible with a double rifle.

IIRC, the 450/400 and 450 NE's had a relatively fast twist at birth, as far back as 1898 for the latter.
Another reason they succeeded so well despite the inferior bullets of yore.
One twist in 14 or 15 inches.
That is more than fast enough,
even for GSC monometal copper.

Some are stuck in the past.

RIP:

I have to confess that I am a bit confused. I don't want anyone to fly off the handle here cause I know that we have beaten this to death but I can't figure out why it is okay to shoot GSC monometal FN bullets in your double but not Barnes monometel bullets?

Dave

"There is one source of perfect bullets for the nitro expresses. These are Woodleigh bullets from Australia. They are available in almost every caliber and weight. More importantly, they are designed to duplicate the originals. Further, these are some of the finest game bullets ever developed. The softs feature tapered jackets with bonded lead cores, while the solids have reinforced steel jackets reminiscent of the original Rigby bullets, ones that carved the reputation of the old English Rigby firm in stone. Shooters who want an inexpensive alternative can use the copper-jacketed/lead core Barnes Originals or the similar Hawk bullets."

Ross Seyfried

Perfection comes from South Africa, where GS Custom is turning out true wide flatnoses. These bullets are favored by really experienced and knowledgeable professional hunters. The one you see in the picture went the full length of a six-ton bull elephant. - Ross Seyfried in Handloader Magazine, Feb 2004.

BigFiveJack:

A bit off the subject here but could you tell me what your 450/400's weigh?

Dave

Dave Bush,
If you are still confused, despite all the explanations on this and other threads you are also posting on, I give up.
It is old hat by now.
Read some at Gerard's website and maybe you will get it.

BTW,
Just to get back to some controversy,
since it is well established that the GSC FN is the best solid for use in either double rifles or bolt actions:

the 450 NE 3"1/4
and the 450/400 3"
and the 450/400 NE 3"1/4
and the 500 NE 3"
all
have 1:15" TWIST by CIP spec, which I hope is what they were from the beginning, for the benefit of all those vintage DR owners.
Old is new again for me.

Me thinks a 470 NE DR with 1:10" twist (instead of 1:21") would be the ultimate all-around
DR.
However, I may have to settle for a Ruger No.1
470 NE with 1:10" twist for now.

A 470 NE Ruger No.1 could be loaded as light as the DR ballistics,
or it could be loaded up to 470 Mbogo bolt action levels.
With a 1:10" twist, that would be progress.

Care would be taken to segregate the higher pressure loads away from the DR.
The finest GSC or the most plebeian bullet of any sort could be fired with abandon.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
BigFiveJack:

A bit off the subject here but could you tell me what your 450/400's weigh?

Dave

My rifle weighs 10 pounds 7 ounces.

Thanks Jack.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Dave Bush,
If you are still confused, despite all the explanations on this and other threads you are also posting on, I give up.
It is old hat by now.
Read some at Gerard's website and maybe you will get it.

BTW,
Just to get back to some controversy,
since it is well established that the GSC FN is the best solid for use in either double rifles or bolt actions:

the 450 NE 3"1/4
and the 450/400 3"
and the 450/400 NE 3"1/4
and the 500 NE 3"
all
have 1:15" TWIST by CIP spec, which I hope is what they were from the beginning, for the benefit of all those vintage DR owners.
Old is new again for me.

Me thinks a 470 NE DR with 1:10" twist (instead of 1:21") would be the ultimate all-around
DR.
However, I may have to settle for a Ruger No.1
470 NE with 1:10" twist for now.

A 470 NE Ruger No.1 could be loaded as light as the DR ballistics,
or it could be loaded up to 470 Mbogo bolt action levels.
With a 1:10" twist, that would be progress.

Care would be taken to segregate the higher pressure loads away from the DR.
The finest GSC or the most plebeian bullet of any sort could be fired with abandon.

RIP:

I just wanted you to see this. It was posted by Litespeed in the other thread about monometal solids in double rifles.

"I might bring old news to you, but I got a little lost in the discussion between JPK and Ard Anyway... I have owned a couple of doubles, but then mostly new ones. I am currently waiting for a Krieghoff in 500NE. I used to own one in 375H&H and asked Krieghoff aboutt using Barnes Banded Solids, since I had good experience with them in my bolt action. Part of their answer to me is listed below. For me that answer is good enough, and I will use the Barnes solids if they shoot well in my rifle.


"I would not hesitate to use them if you have good success and they are
grouping in your Double.
Best regards and I keep my fingers crossed for your Buff-Hunt.

Yours sincerely,

Michael Steinmetz for
H.Krieghoff GmbH"

RIP, I am not trying to pick a fight here. You have way more experience than I and I only plan on using Woodleighs for hunting and plain old Hornaday Interlocks at the range but Barnes says their monometal solids or safe in a double and now, Kreighoff says they are safe too. I just wanted to pass this information on to you. Please, don't kill the messenger.

Dave

Dave,
I have the same opinion as MacD37 and JPK.
The negligent opinion of a rifle maker does not alter prudence.
Use the best.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Five Jack:
But, these www.gscustom.co.za and North Fork to a slightly less degree

than the GSC can be pushed through the barrel of your rifle using a wooden dowel with FAR less

effort than the Woodleigh soft. This driving band design was tested by 500 Grains some time back

and he reported that the presure was lowest with GSC and just a bit higher with NF and clearly

higher came from using the Woodleigh soft. This was not theory BS, this was what the tests showed.

Jack:

With due respect to Dan (I like Dan and I do respect his views), and I could be wrong, I think Dan's comments regarding the respective pressures were merely his observations as a handloader as opposed to pressure tested data, as I don't think he has such equipment. Further, the damage that monometals can do to the barrels of double rifles has nothing to do with excessive chamber pressure.

quote:

So, even though I hate to admit it because I AM such a fan of the old ways, the bullets that go

through a barrel that DON'T get engraved on their shafts because the shafts are under the size of

the rifling lands, but only get engraved on their skinny driving bands, produce less pressure than

traditional Woodleigh type bullets, AND, my logic tells me they'll stress my old DR LESS than Wood-

leighs!

That might be true if such a bullet existed.

quote:

And I say again, the tests reveal what they reveal.

Look at the bullet top left. The lands clearly cut through the bands and engraved the full diameter of the shank, which isn't compressible. That's what causes damage to DR barrels. That bullet certainly wasn't merely pushed through the bore with a wooden dowel!

I know a number of guys that have fired quite a few of these "drive band" monos in their double rifles, some of which have OSR visible on the outside of the barrels. Is it from these bullets? I don't know. After 20 odd years of shooting Woodleighs (including steel) and a host of other jacketed bullets in my doubles, it's obvious that it's from something I'm not using in mine.
-------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400 Nitro Express,

Look at the bulet top left. It was fired from a 500NE. The barrel groove diameter of a 500NE is 13.00mm (0.512"). The land to land diameter of a 500NE is 12.70mm (0.500"). The bullet you see has a shaft diameter of 12.70mm (0.500") and, measured on the drive bands will measure 13.010mm (0.5122"). It is therefore not required for the body of the bullet to compress in any way. The rifling does not have to compress the drive bands into the shaft in any way either. The drive bands are cut and pushed to the rear and that requires less pressure than compression of material into the shaft of a grooved bullet or of the jacket material into the volume of a bullet as in the bullet below the GSC FN.

The total volume of material that is displaced on the GSC bullet is less than a quarter of that of the bullet below. The nature of the displacement of the material on the GSC FN is also different in that the material yields to the rear. This requires less pressure than compression into the shaft as with the bullet below. The yield point of the copper GSC FN is lower than that of the brass bullet.

Read my first post of 28 Feb, 12 up from yours and tell me what part of that post is not clear to you. In what part of that post can I be more comprehensive or make a clearer explanation that will be easier to understand?

quote:

That bullet certainly wasn't merely pushed through the bore with a wooden dowel!

Dan has done it and so have others. You need to contact the owners of the doubles with the damage you describe and ask what brand of monos they used. It will not be GSC because all bullets that are described as banded are not banded. Nor are all solids created equal. It would be good if you would not tar us with the same brush.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Dave,
I have the same opinion as MacD37 and JPK.
The negligent opinion of a rifle maker does not alter prudence.
Use the best.

Rare as it may be, I agree with RIP entirely here.
--------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

In what part of that post can I be more comprehensive or make a clearer explanation that will be easier to understand?

I don't think there's need for clarification at all. You posted the photo, which makes it clear that this statement.....

quote:

Look at the bulet top left. It was fired from a 500NE. The barrel groove diameter of a 500NE is 13.00mm (0.512"). The land to land diameter of a 500NE is 12.70mm (0.500"). The bullet you see has a shaft diameter of 12.70mm and, measured on the drive bands will measure 13.010mm (0.5122"). It is therefore not required for the body of the bullet to compress in any way.

....is not true.
------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400 Nitro Express:

Do you see any problem with using plain old Horndady Interlock RNSPs of appropriate weight for practice if you can get them shooting to the correct POI? I shoot quite a bit (and I am cheap) and I hate to send those expensive Woodleighs down the range into the bank or a bucket of water if I don't have too

Dave

No, none at all. Although I have to size them down first, I use them in my rifles, and I'm fond of the Interlock.
------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:

Dan has done it and so have others.

That one sure wasn't. Maybe pounded through with a wooden dowel and large hammer.

quote:

You need to contact the owners of the doubles with the damage you describe and ask what brand of monos they used. It will not be GSC because all bullets that are described as banded are not banded. Nor are all solids created equal. It would be good if you would not tar us with the same brush.

Actually, I have, and GS were used.
----------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

We control diameters to a tolerance of plus or minus 0.005mm (0.0002"). That is from batch to batch, let alone within a batch, where tolerances are often tighter than that. To state that the illustrated 500NE bullet is not at the diameter I say that it is, and that I am lying, is insulting to say the least. See how we do it.

Ask anyone who has measured our bullets and you will be told that they are the diameter that we say they are.

Given that you may genuinely not know how to judge this, here are some pointers to how engraving of a bullet happens.



The absence of engraving on the tapered section of the ogive and the boat tail on the bullet below, as described in A/C and D/B and #4 in the picture above, shows that you are looking at the condition described in #5 above on the shaft of this bullet.



The same apllies to these two bullets where there is no engraving of the shaft between the front drive bands as the displaced drive band material did not even bridge the gap betwen the two. The shaft taper from front to rear is clearly visible on these two as well.




In the pictures of FN bullets above, the match between the two diameters of of the bullet and the two diameters of the barrels are good. The illustrations below show a good match between the groove diameters of the barrels and the drive band diameters of the bullets, but the land diameters of the barrels are larger than the shaft diameters of the bullets. This resulted in no contact between the faces of the lands and the shafts of the bullets.



Below is a first batch bullet for a new caliber and the shallow marking of the drive bands by the lands indicate that both the shaft and drive band diamters can be increased.



In all these examples there is the absence of A/C and D/B type engraving on the tapered sections of the bullets. This proves that the diameters of the shafts of these bullets did not exceed the land diameter of the barrels from which they were fired. If the diameter of the shaft of the bullet is the same or less than the land diameter of the barrel, there can be no displacement of material of the shaft. Only the drive bands are pushed to the rear and into the spaces, which are of larger volume than the material that is displaced.

The engraving pressure of bullets vary from 750psi to 9000psi. Drive band bullets are at the bottom of this scale (genuine drive band bullets, not everything that is called a drive band bullet) and bronze/brass solids are at the upper end of this spectrum with steel jacketed lead core bullets at 3000psi to 4000psi.

quote:

That one sure wasn't.

No it was not. It was recovered from the earth after penetrating a downed elephant head.

quote:

Actually, I have, and GS were used.

That is a serious allegation and one we must follow up on. Kindly contact the users and ask them to get in touch with us so that we can arrange repair/replacement. That is what we undertake to do if GSC product caused what you say. Now we wait for a response.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
That is a serious allegation and one we must follow up on. Kindly contact the users and ask them to get in touch with us so that we can arrange repair/replacement. That is what we undertake to do if GSC product caused what you say. Now we wait for a response.

Well, Gerard is clearly prepared to "face the music" should some one play any.
As I sent him my "slugs" he's had the oppportunity to make a custom sizing for
me of shaft diameter and band diameter. I await a delivery of 50 flat nosed solids.
I'll push three bullets through each of my barrels using a dowel. I'll take pictures
of the six total bullets and post them. I'll wait for feed back before loading
the bullets up and firing them. Perhaps our entire community will benefit from
this process which I am undertaking. I suspect that what we'll find is that if
a guy uses GSC bullets that are of the correct size for HIS PARTICULAR rifle that
rifle will be well served by the use of GSC bullets. Let's see what these first
six bullets, which I push through the barrels by hand with a dowel look like. I
wonder what the world would be like if our collective politicians were as honest
with us as we here are with each other.

I know this is a bit off the subject but I just noticed that at MidwayUSA they are showing Kynoch ammunition loaded with a 400 grain Swift in .500/.416.

Dave

Ah, the .395/340-grain GSC FN recovered from the Iron WaterBoard Buffalo!
I don't think that is such a bad attempt at matching bore and groove diameters by email, going off the supposed specs reported by Harry McGowen: .395" groove and .387" land/bore.

Mark,
Who dunnit?
We need a thorough investigation here.
Internet talk is too easy.

quote:

400 Nitro Express posted on 4 March 2009 (Time Line)
I know a number of guys that have fired quite a few of these "drive band" monos in their double rifles, some of which have OSR visible on the outside of the barrels. Is it from these (GSC) bullets? I don't know.

quote:

Gerard posted on 4 March 2009 (+ 22m)
You need to contact the owners of the doubles with the damage you describe and ask what brand of monos they used. It will not be GSC because all bullets that are described as banded are not banded. Nor are all solids created equal. It would be good if you would not tar us with the same brush.

quote:

400 Nitro Express posted on 4 March 2009 (+ 3h 9m)
Actually, I have, and GS were used.

quote:

Gerard posted on 5 March 2009 (+ 13h 41m)
That is a serious allegation and one we must follow up on. Kindly contact the users and ask them to get in touch with us so that we can arrange repair/replacement. That is what we undertake to do, if GSC product caused what you say. Now we wait for a response.

quote:

BigFiveJack posted on 6 March 2009 (+ 1d 14h 8m)
Well, Gerard is clearly prepared to "face the music" should some one play any.

quote:

RIP posted on 7 March 2009 (+ 2d 12h 48m)
Mark,
Who dunnit?
We need a thorough investigation here.
Internet talk is too easy.

Well, I have had no contact regarding the damage to doubles allegedly caused by GSC bullets.

Given that it took only slightly more than 3 hours to contact the people and to go from "I don't know" to "Actually, I have, and GS were used." the delay approaching four days is strange.

If anyone has damaged a double rifle with GSC bullets, we need to know what bullets were used, who supplied them and when. Above all we must make arrangements for setting right the damage. Unless it is just talk and all fiction.

A double rifle barrel replacement runs into big numbers and there is no need to foot the bill yourself, when someone else is prepared to take responsibility and cough up for it. If repair will destroy the value of the guns in question, we need to make arangement for a suitable replacement to ensure your investment is not compromised.

Mark, although you had no hesitation in calliing me a liar, I would refrain from doing so with you, if you come up with some names or move these people to contact me. They need not contact me publicly if they do not wish to do so, a PM or an email from them (you say there is more than one) will suffice. Even a call on +2784 338 3006 will be welcome.

If silence prevails, I will start to wonder about the validity of your opinion on other matters and what to believe and what not, when you post.

Is there a trend here?

Since Bossi patented the first double barreled small arm in 1616, doubles have been fired with lead or lead cored bullets. This habit/practise has endured for 393 Years.

Skip forwards from 1616 to 1996 and take stock of the number of doubles that have been delaminated, shot loose or have gone out of regulation in that time. It must be a staggering number.

Now consider the 13 years from 1996 to the present. We still see the same calamities regarding doubles and the various lead core and other bullets with which they are used.

Interestingly, there is a notable absence of calamities with GSC drive band bullets and doubles. Our records of 13 years show that we have manufactured several hundred thousand FN bullets. A considerable number must have been fired from doubles, yet we do not know of a single incident where a double has delaminated, shot loose or has gone out of regulation, as a result of the use of GSC turned copper drive band bullets.

The fact that GSC FN bullets also have a sterling reputation on game up to elephant, is a bonus and a big one at that.

However, we at GSC respect everyone's right to use their paid for property as they wish. We can only watch and wonder.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Well, I have had no contact regarding the damage to doubles allegedly caused by GSC bullets.

...the delay approaching four days...

If anyone has damaged a double rifle with GSC bullets, we need to know what bullets were used, who supplied them and when. Above all we must make arrangements for setting right the damage...

A double rifle barrel replacement runs into big numbers and there is no need to foot the bill yourself, when someone else is prepared to take responsibility and cough up for it. If repair will destroy the value of the guns in question, we need to make arangement for a suitable replacement to ensure your investment is not compromised.

...They need not contact me publicly if they do not wish to do so, a PM or an email from them...will suffice. Even a call on +2784 338 3006 will be welcome.

...Since Bossi patented the first double barreled small arm in 1616, doubles have been fired with lead or lead cored bullets. This habit/practise has endured for 393 Years.

Skip forwards from 1616 to 1996 and take stock of the number of doubles that have been delaminated, shot loose or have gone out of regulation in that time. It must be a staggering number.

Now consider the 13 years from 1996 to the present. We still see the same calamities regarding doubles and the various lead core and other bullets with which they are used.

Interestingly, there is a notable absence of calamities with GSC drive band bullets and doubles. Our records of 13 years show that we have manufactured several hundred thousand FN bullets. A considerable number must have been fired from doubles, yet we do not know of a single incident where a double has delaminated, shot loose or has gone out of regulation, as a result of the use of GSC turned copper drive band bullets.

The fact that GSC FN bullets also have a sterling reputation on game up to elephant, is a bonus and a big one at that.

However, we at GSC respect everyone's right to use their paid for property as they wish. We can only watch and wonder.

I truly do hope that IF anyone's rifle was damaged by GSC Bullets it turns out that the issue

was a shaft that was not the proper size for the specific rifle. I can't believe that anybody

WANTS TO SEE a person's business ruined because what was thought to be a sound product

turns out to be seriously flawed. If you fired GSC Bullets in your rifle and the result was a

damaged rifle speak now, or, as the preacher always says as he's performing a wedding ceremony,

"FOREVER HOLD YOUR PEACE !!!"

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I think that I can say with full confidence that if Gerard were to receive a private communication

that included a claim of rifle damage caused by PROPERLY sized GSC Bullets, that all of us here

would absolutely expect Gerard to report that fact here, leaving the name of the claimant out of

course. Further, that the results of the investigation into the matter would be fully disclosed to

us. Many here have supported Gerard, and a number have proclaimed a level of concern about using

his products in double rifles. We just want the best bullets for our rifles, no more, no less.

Gerard:

Would you believe the rifle that was damaged by the GSC bullets was mine. Yep, it was an H&H Royal sidelock .470 in mint condition. Damage was so bad I had to just throw it in the trash. Can't really remember the serial number. Could you please send me a new one?




Dave

Hi Dave,
No problem, we have a bunch of these lying around just in case we have to send someone a new one.



Please let me have your email address and I will send it to you. It is not possible to fax it to you as it tends to bend the barrels.

Yours is the only reply I have received so far.

Gerard:

You don't need to send me the scope. Mine didn't have one and I wouldn't want to take advantage of you

Dave

WHO AUTHORIZED LIGHT-HEARTED HUMOR BEING INSERTED INTO MY THREAD???