Hello all,

I'm a new owner of a Krieghoff Classic 470 NE. I was told to check out this place after joining up on another double rifle forum, and I must say I am very impressed with the knowledge base here.

I have not took my 470 to the range yet, mostly because I refuse to pay $300+ for a box of ammo. I have been gathering reloading and casting supplies and now finally have some ammo to try out.

I had Mountain Molds cut a mold of my design. It is 500 gr. gas check design with a 70% meplat. My first loads were assembled with 5744, as I read some had luck with loads regulating with 45-48 gr. of 5744. If this rain ever lets up I'll get out to the range and see how they do.

Look forward to learning much more about doubles here.

Ted

Ted:

Welcome to AR, and more importantly welcome to the DRSS!

I would love to see you update your profile to reflect the area of the world you are from - there are a lot of DR guys out there and you never know if liked minded folks are just around the corner for you.

I know your pain about the cost of ammo - and the cost of reloading components have increased two or three fold over the past year due to the cost of copper and other components.

I strongly recommend that you not only shoot reduced, lead bullets, but you also develop a full power load for your rifle with other bullets - I like Woodleighs personally, but have heard guys say Hawk bullets work well as well as North Forks (which are going to be made again!

One word of advice: stay far away from monolithic bullets - those can wreck a set of barrels in no time.

Always shoot your developing loads over a Chrono (you can get them for under $100 these days) and when you find a powder charge for your rifle, load up on that powder and make sure it has the same lot number! If you buy the same type of powder, and it is a different lot number, you have to develop another load using that new lot of powder.

Glad you joined - I think you will find that 99% of your questions are all ready answered here - if not, I'm sure someone can help you!

Sure, I will update my profile.

I've been reloading and casting for over 25 years, so I have a pretty good handle on working up loads. It should be an interesting project to do with a double. I do intend on working with some full power loads too. 90% of my shooting is done with my own cast bullets, so that seemed like the best place to start with this rifle too. And shooting home-made cast bullets will be the only way I'll be able to afford to shoot this thing on a regular basis.

While waiting for brass to become available, I watched the Woodleighs price jump 50%. You snooze you loose I guess. Should have stocked up back then.

Hi TedH:

Welcome to the AR and also DRSS. Stop wasting time and start shooting that puppy.

Many regular handloaders don't relise how expensive it is just to start handloading these big British calibers.

First if you have an older press like the Rockchucker, the longer shells really don't fit in the reloading window, yep new press.

Then the shock of new RCBS dies 470 NE $289.00 plus $29.00 for the shell holder. You can buy Redding for $69.00 I know, I know. But all my dies are RCBS.

Then the shock of Woodleigh bullets for example, over $102.00 for 50 pack of solids.

Then your old Forster case trimmer will not fit the longer 470's ...yep a new case trimmer. Still better than buying a RCBS trim die for $169.00 Don't forget the new pilot and collet to go with. $$$

Now you got to track down the brass, wheather it is Jamison, Asquare, God forbid Norma $2.00 a shell or better.

The regular powders and primers are normal. The reasons I just gave is what I just went through for my reloading setup..

What the hell if you pay like $12K for a double rifle, I guess the extra bucks for reloading is trivial. And especially for you since you WON your rifle...LOL

Good luck and good shooting...
Jim P.

Welcome to AR, and DRSS! Congratulations on your first double rifle, and you came to one of the best places for discussion on the twin barrel forearms.

quote:

I've been reloading and casting for over 25 years, so I have a pretty good handle on working up loads. It should be an interesting project to do with a double. I do intend on working with some full power loads too. 90% of my shooting is done with my own cast bullets, so that seemed like the best place to start with this rifle too. And shooting home-made cast bullets will be the only way I'll be able to afford to shoot this thing on a regular basis.

While waiting for brass to become available, I watched the Woodleighs price jump 50%. You snooze you loose I guess. Should have stocked up back then.

You are intering a "NEW" world, and you will find very quickly that loading for a double rifle will be absolutely another world than loading for any other type of firearm.

The good part of the deal is that for the cost of a couple of boxes of factory ammo, you can set up to load for your double rifle, and once get a load that works in your double, the cost of shooting will be much lower. Price of ammo is not the olny reason for handloading! To get the best from your double, handloading is a must. though most new doubles will shoot factory ammo acceptably, very few of them will shoot as well as with a custom tailered load!However, most do not know how this is done, and the first thing is to forget what you know about loading for a single barreled rifle, when dealing with a rifle with two barrels!

You can for get almost eveything you have learned over the years about loading for single barrel rifles, because the double rifle is a zebra of a very different stripe! The first thing you need to know, if you don't already,and that is a double rifle is not designed to have the bullets cross at a given distance, regardless what the gun rag writers tell you!

My first advice is to reconsider your use of 5744 powder! Problems have come to light with this powder, and a can or two of Reloader-15, or H4831sc will giver you a far better result. With the R-15 you will need filler to take up airspace in the case. With full loads of H-4831sc you can load without filler.

450 nitro No2 (Tony) can fill you in on his 75% rule for lighter practice loads! Acentually
useing the full powder charge with a 500 gr bullet, and substituteing a bullet that weighs as close to 75% of the weight of the heavy bullet, with no other changes will usually regulate in most double rifles.

Again, welcome here on Accurate reloading, and to DRSS!

The journey begines!

quote:

My first advice is to reconsider your use of 5744 powder! Problems have come to light with this powder,

Did a search, could not find anything, what type of problems?

With a bit of experimenting, there is no reason you can't use your cast bullets for full power loads in your .470. The maximum velocity of your regulated load is likely to be less than 2200 fps, more likely in the neighborhood of 2100 fps. Cast bullets work just fine at those velocities IF your barrel is smooth enough. You may have to shoot some jacketed bullets through it to smooth it up, or lap it if you want to use the cast bullets. FWIW DuaneB

quote:

One word of advice: stay far away from monolithic bullets - those can wreck a set of barrels in no time.

Can a heat treated cast bullet be hard enough to cause the same kind of problems? When I oven heat treat some of the bullets I cast, they can reach 30+ BRN. I'm starting with air cooled wheelweights with 2% tin alloy. I also have an alloy with lino that duplicates Lyman #2. It's harder than plain WW, but softer than heat treated WW. I suspect I should be able to use that #2 alloy up to max loads with H4831. I also use air cooled WW in a 45-70 up to 1850 fps with excellent accuracy and zero leading. Heat treating may not be needed at all in the 470 bullets?

I would try without heat treating first. Maybe you will get lucky. I have a .358 that shoots your WW + 2% (or an alloy near it) at 2430 fps instrument velocity (probably very near 2500 fps muzzle velocity) using ww + 2% aircooled gas checked, LBT lubed bullet, sized .360 with no leading. If the air cooled lead gives you problems, you might try the #2 alloy, if leading still occurs, then heat treat or go to straight linotype. However, as I noted in my first post on this subject, if your barrels are not smooth, then you will probably have trouble in any case until they smooth out. Use a GC of course, otherwise anything above 1500 fps or so will most likely give you problems. You could try the poly wads or grrease wads instead of a GC, but I havent used these myself so can't give you any definitive results. DuaneB

Welcom to the forum.
Midway has Jamison International Brass 470 Nitro Express Box of 20 $42.49 or 100 for $194.99
They show both as avaliable.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:

quote:

My first advice is to reconsider your use of 5744 powder! Problems have come to light with this powder,

Did a search, could not find anything, what type of problems?

JBoutfishn,
There were some post about some one had blown up or ringed a chamber using this powder. I believe it was because they used a filler improperly. When you use a filler you can’t have any air space in the case. I believe 5744 powder says not to use a filler.
Bill

Thanks Bill

For factory .470 ammo, Sportsman's Guide runs $ 30-$40 a box cheaper than anywhere else I've found, and you get a coupon for some $$ off your next order to boot.