Must say I like my K gun. I also bought a set of 20g shotgun barrls for it and use it for trap and Skiet. Always start with it at hip level and un-cocked and only cock it as I raise the gun to my shoulder. It certainly helped me get familiar with the feel and use of the cocking system.

I am a firm beliver in the military idea of 'muscle memory', and that after you have performed an action 3000 odd times it has become 'hardwired' in the brain. I certainly shot at least that the first year I got it, in addition to alot of dry firing in the evenings and no longer even register when the gun gets cocked- it just arrives like that in my shoulder. Mind you, the same could be said for switching from a flag safety on my normal hunting rifle to a centre mounted on on a more traditional double. You have got to put in the trigger time and dry firing- both for the safety/cocking system and the reload.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Must say I like my K gun. I also bought a set of 20g shotgun barrls for it and use it for trap and Skiet. Always start with it at hip level and un-cocked and only cock it as I raise the gun to my shoulder. It certainly helped me get familiar with the feel and use of the cocking system.

I am a firm beliver in the military idea of 'muscle memory', and that after you have performed an action 3000 odd times it has become 'hardwired' in the brain. I certainly shot at least that the first year I got it, in addition to alot of dry firing in the evenings and no longer even register when the gun gets cocked- it just arrives like that in my shoulder. Mind you, the same could be said for switching from a flag safety on my normal hunting rifle to a centre mounted on on a more traditional double. You have got to put in the trigger time and dry firing- both for the safety/cocking system and the reload.

Don, what happens as you get older and your muscles become forgetful?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Good Lord, I don't believe some of this stuff.

Almost as unbelievable as not being able to use a proper double trigger rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Good Lord, I don't believe some of this stuff.

Almost as unbelievable as not being able to use a proper double trigger rifle.

You are a certified juvenile.

My 500 was the first delivered 500 in the US-- it was the demo gun on the first tour.

I chose mine after a non-intercepting sear older English double fired WITH the safety ON while on a crawling stalk.

The blast was near my head and face and my right hand was lacerated as the barrels and front sight recoiled rearward.

The cocking actuator/safety on the 500 was a bit awkward but only for a very brief initial period.

I grew up with SxS bird guns, I always brought the safety off on the way to my shoulder--one motion.

The K gun switch wore in well and quickly to the point that I soon began not to notice the increased effort as compared to my

birdguns safeties.

The biggest complaints I have after 16 years--

a tad front heavy and a bit light for a 500.

Retrospectively, I think the Brak-O would have been a smart addition--for balance and weight.

I skipped the kick killer as I had the thought that I would buy the 20ga barrels , but never did.

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by GarBy:
Safest double on the market for your PH

I just don't point my rifle at the PH nor do I have some guy carry my rifle that might shoot me or someone else, no brainer.

Maybe if you say it Dirk it will sink in. When I say it people seem to get pissed off?

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:

quote:

However I'm hoping he has a clue about firearms safety and this added advantage of the K gun won't be needed.

So now it's an advantage?

Yes IF you make a point of habitually pointing loaded weapons at people.....So for anyone who completely disregards firearms safety a cocker is probably a really good idea. Actually I suppose I'd prefer they just take up golf!!!

quote:

For safety purposes.

And just what are safety purposes?

This is ridiculous.....
Brett

See aussie, aren't you glad you asked?
Mike Jines, how about some commentary on your elephant charge video? Looks like you shot first, paused (to see what happened?), then the PH shot (but looks like he did not cycle the action right away), then you shot again and the elephant went down. I assume it was your second shot that did the deed? Please note no criticism here just trying to understand what happened and learn something. Any idea where the shots went?
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Yes IF you make a point of habitually pointing loaded weapons at people.....So for anyone who completely disregards firearms safety a cocker is probably a really good idea. Actually I suppose I'd prefer they just take up golf!!![/color]

Brett

Agree (except the take up the Golf bit !!! LOL


In one of the posts, Why were 2 people shot by a PH's gun ? Basic safety in firearm handling not being followed. So what if it had a cocker / de cocker, the gun shouldn't have been pointed at people anyway. no if's, butt's or maybe's. If someone is ahead of you in a line, you carry the gun a different way, loaded or unloaded.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
See aussie, aren't you glad you asked?
Mike Jines, how about some commentary on your elephant charge video? Looks like you shot first, paused (to see what happened?), then the PH shot (but looks like he did not cycle the action right away), then you shot again and the elephant went down. I assume it was your second shot that did the deed? Please note no criticism here just trying to understand what happened and learn something. Any idea where the shots went?
Peter.

Peter,

Looking at the video, The first 2 shots, one by each are virtually together.
I also thought the PH did cycle the action (you can hear it), although not immediately but fairly quickly.

Very good video.

.

Maybe if you carry a DR upside down like in aussie country you shoot the guy behind you?

Gentlemen, it makes absolutely no difference how you carry your rifle loaded or unloaded as long as you don’t point it at anyone! It is very easy to carry the PH style without pointing the rifle at anyone. It is not the style of carry but where the rifle is pointed that causes accidental death to others! As 500N asked what caused the PH to shoot the trackers? Was it the carry method, or where the PH was pointing the rifle?

There is nothing wrong with having a “belt & suspenders” attitude where safety is concerned, and the K-gun system will negate a multitude of sins by careless people, be they PH, client, or gun bearer!
...........................

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by BaxterB:
quote:
However I'm hoping he has a clue about firearms safety and this added advantage of the K gun won't be needed.



So now it's an advantage?

Yes IF you make a point of habitually pointing loaded weapons at people.....So for anyone who completely disregards firearms safety a cocker is probably a really good idea. Actually I suppose I'd prefer they just take up golf!!!


quote:

For safety purposes.


And just what are safety purposes?


This is ridiculous.....
Brett

The purpose of a safety is NOT so that you can point a loaded rifle at anyone. Your continual argument on this is sophistry and it is childish. The purpose of a safety is to prevent the unintentional discharge os a rifle, period, under ANY circumstance, whether or not it is pointed at anyone. All I am doing is turning your logic around and making an example of it and as you see it falls apart. Accidental dischargees are an UNWANTED occurrence that happen out of the shooters control and are created by many different means. If you can't understand that whether or not the rifle is pointed at anyone or not makes no difference to the purpose of a safety (preventing accidental discharge, period), you really need to think about it more.

You keep harping on the gun handling issue, but then you fail to answer the question "Is a safety necessary?" if one (such as you must have) has impeccable handling skills. You disregard the fact that many of these accidents are meta-gunhandling-skills related. When you are hunting, and your PH says "Put a round in the chamber and on full safe" and you reply, "But I have impeccable gun handling skills" donp;t blame me when he hits you over the head with a club and the trackers drag you back to the truck. Shit happens (read Brittany Boddington;s article about shooting Punky) and I think when the shit hit the fan, ANYTHING that will help, even in the smallest way, prevent an accident is worthwhile. Agree, or not?

The question of safety purposes is not ridiculous. You stated that's what a safety is for, so tell me, without rehashing the old pointing guns at people saw, what IS A SAFETY FOR?

On another note, I'm not pissed off at all. How you can glean that is beyond me. I just like to get to the nuts an bolts of stuff and have a good old fashioned debate. This of course would be much more effective and fun in person over a pint or two, but alas we must work with the tools we have at our disposal.

I don't have a K gun but so far in my life I have'nt found a rifle that I could'nt make work. I doubt that the K gun would be an exception to that.

I have had a double rifle discharge without my finger anywhere near the trigger, ( witnessed by a fellow AR member) And yes thank goodness for safe gun handeling.

I really don't understand why so much ado about your personal preferances concerning the design of the rifle. If you like it buy it if not Well that's easy.
I have an idea. Lets change the name of he K gun to Ford, all other double rifles will be called Chevy. I bet we could find the same dicussion over on auto forums somewhere.

Is there new or pending legislation in any European country that requires guns to be carried in an uncocked condition? I'm certain that I have read that somewhere as an explanation for the many new and newish designs that decock the gun rather than merely acting as a traditional safety.

quote:

Originally posted by safari-lawyer:
Nice target Paul. Will your new M-gun print like that?

Will:

If I ever get a day off from work and fixing up the house so I can sell it I hope to get to the range!

Originally posted by JWM

quote:

Is there new or pending legislation in any European country that requires guns to be carried in an uncocked condition? I'm certain that I have read that somewhere as an explanation for the many new and newish designs that decock the gun rather than merely acting as a traditional safety.

European countries are always throwing new draconeian gun laws out there but in this case theres nothing new about the design in general.

These are called Sicherheitswaffen and the thumb cocking device is called a handspannung. They have been incorperated into many guns from double to singleshot to bolt action.

Concern about safety with a conventional tang safety has been around for quite a while. Westley Richards sold a lot of high grade drop locks with stalking safties and still does today. For those not familiar a stalking safety is a lever located in front of the tang safety that when in place will not permit the tang safety to be pushed forward. The idea was to carry it in the locked position then released when action was about to happen.

Indeed! Something is always lost in translation on the internet.

Obviously the intent of a safety is to avoid accidental discharge. At no point have I said safety devices are irrelevant. The only time I even came close to saying that was to say had the PH not pointed the rifle at someone the discharge would have been irrelevant with regard to human injury. What I am trying to stress is that safety features of a firearm should not in any way shape or form be a replacement for safe gun handling skills. If you keep your gun pointed in a safe direction at all times and regularly check you safety you shouldn't have a problem with a tang safety. Is a cocker less likely to get accidently engaged? Yes by virtue of more force being needed. I do not however think that makes it superior. At some point you have to look at all the factors like ease of use. For me it doesn't make sense and besides I like old guns, so this is rather a non issue for me. For someone else they need to use a bunch of guns and see what they think before making a purchase and then regardless of what they go with ALWAYS us propper firearms handling safety!

Brett

No thanks! They are fine guns but I don't care for the fit and finish of them. I am not crazy about the Heym for the same reasons.Take a look at the Chapius and the Verney Carron doubles.

Brett, I too think the cocking system on a K-gun is indeed "safer" than a conventional safety.

quote:

They have been incorperated into many guns from double to singleshot to bolt action.

Yes indeed! My Blaser has one! I love that feature as well! Once you have had one sip of the Kool Aid it is easy to drink the rest!
Peter.

Here's another consideration. A bolted safety...(which are almost exclusively found on older guns) I dunno, but that night throw a wrench into the whole giddy-up. I have never handled one but I could for sure see that as a little confusing: a safety for a safety...

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Here's another consideration. A bolted safety...(which are almost exclusively found on older guns) I dunno, but that night throw a wrench into the whole giddy-up. I have never handled one but I could for sure see that as a little confusing: a safety for a safety...

Cheers

I believe they have some "colorful" names for those.

Brett

quote:

Originally posted by aussie21:
Does anyone own one? Or have shot one? What do/did you think? They seem like a very nice rifle. I know their trap guns are excellent.

I own one in 470 Nitro and couldn't be more pleased with it --

It's well made, reliable and very accurate. Everything I could ask for.

As for the cocker -- it works just like the tang safeties I've used all of my life, albeit with a tad more effort -- I don't understand the big problem people have with it. But, each to his own.

For someone who owns and pratices with a K gun it SHOULD be a non-issue...period. They are well made and accurate doubles.
I no longer own one, but they are very fine weapons.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
DSC

The cocking system and no option for ejectors stops me from wanting one.

Hello aussie,

Have a 470 Grade II.
Took it to SA in March, it worked well.
In general I like it allot.
Well made and very accurate.

Nitro