I am new to double rifles. My first and only one is a Krieghoff Classic 470. I am not trying to stir the pot, but just curious as to why the Krieghoff rifles seem to be regarded around here as second rate to many of the other makes.

Nothing at all I love mine. It shoots well, fucntions well, never doubles and I got use to the safety in a few sessions with the gun. It seems as the safety is an issue for those unfamiliar with it.

I personally do not like that safety or what ever it is that sticks up on the tang of the rifle.. I prefer the flat safety...

Mike

TedH there are many things most treditional double rifle owners, and shooters do not like about the Krieghoff double rifles! First it was the combi-cocking system, which was misunderstood by most, me included, when it was newly presented to the shooting public. That has been somewaht relieved by simply understanding the system, and is now generally accepted.

Next is the handleing, was, and remains somewhat clubby. The geometry of the rifle is out of ballance, and handles like, as some discribe it, a fence post. The actions are generally too small for the chambering,in the larger calibers, leaving the weight between the hands light, and the barrels heavy. Most do not like the chrome plated action, which makes the rifle look cheap, along with the varnish like wood finish, and rolled on, or lazer engraveing. Those last things are simply cosmetic, and are acceptable in the opperation of the rifle. The stock design is too much like a bolt action rifle, and most, I've talked to, hate the Wundhommer swale in the right side of the pistol grip, which is exceptionally bothersome to a left hand shooters. Many of the little things most do not like can, with a little re-working be modified to a more acceptable package.

All that being said, the rifle is strong, and they shoot very well, with accuracy equal to most double rifles in the off-the-shelf group, of that price range. I have come to like the combi-cocking system, once I found out you didn't have to re-cock the rifle after reloading durring a fire fight with a buffalo. That can't be said of the Blaser double, which is similer,and doesn't re-cock it'sself when it is broken open for reload, and must be manually re-cocked for the third, and fourth shots,each addtional reload. The Krieghoff does recock it's self, and only decocks when the so-called safety switch is pushed slightly forward, and released!I its then carried with tha action un-cocked. To cock simply push the switch forward, and fire!

I guess you think I don't like the krieghoff double rifles, but you would be wrong, I do like it on some level, but the factory needs to listen to forums like this one, and make a few changes, that would be so easy for them, and very costly for the customer.

I would not hesitate to hunt dangerous game with the Krieghoff double rifle, but given the choice,I'dather use a more conventenally shaped, and balanced, double rifle, as long as I have that choice I will. However, the Blaser double eveyone thinks is the same, and is absolutely not the same, will not find it's way to my hands!

If you like the Krieghoff, and it is evident you do, then enjoy your rifle, and shoot some buffalo with it!

There is nothing wrong with the Krieghoff; it's a very strong rifle that has what some classic SXS users think is a weird safety/cocking mechanism. Although I don't own one ( I do have a K80 shotgun), I'd really like to have one if I ever get around to buying a .500 NE. I think they're well engineered & strong as a vault - quite a few PH's use them.

I do not own a Krieghoff, but I have shot several.

I also shoot and hunt with several Blaser products that have a similar cocking mechanism.

ALL the Krieghoff doubles I have shot have been very accurate.

I have NO problem with the Combi Cocking device.

After you use it a while it becomes second nature.

It is very safe.

In short, for me, there is NOTHING wrong with a Krieghoff.

TedH

I almost forgot. WELCOME TO AR.

And to the DRSS.

I absolutely Love the safety/cocking system. It was the selling point on the rifle for me as a working African PH.

They are, sadly, not as well balanced as say a Heym - but are 6k cheeper!

Some do not like the lack of ejectors. It is a minor hazard and one that you have to train to over come. But- all it takes is practice!

quote:

TedH there are many things most treditional double rifle owners, and shooters do not like about the Krieghoff double rifles! First it was the combi-cocking system, which was misunderstood by most, me included, when it was newly presented to the shooting public. That has been somewaht relieved by simply understanding the system, and is now generally accepted.

Admittedly it is not traditional and is a bit of a turn-off but in the reality of hunting the combi-whatever is a good idea. If the gunbearer is lugging the thing most of the time it is virtually impossible for someone to get shot.

And in the heat of the moment I don't notice the extra effort required to cock the triggers.

They lack the svelte look of the British guns and their copies but for a hunting gun I like mine. They are not necessarily stuck in tradition as they have a straight stock which, to me, makes a world of difference in felt recoil. As far as a big bore they are "pleasant" to shoot.

I wish they had ejectors but they don't. In reality most hunting, and hence most doubles, are a one or two shot affair anyway, so the lack of ejectors isn't really a problem. I think it is just psychological for me.

Welcome TedH. Mine is a 500/416 and I love the gun and the caliber. However I have not hunted with it yet. As has been noted above it is accurate!
Peter.

If the gun fits you, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a K-gun. The combi device is loved by some, hated by others...but you know what they say about opinions. K-guns are well built and accurate. The 500/416 caliber mentioned is a 416 Rigby in a double. The one I fired and worked up loads for shoots 410 gr Woods at a chrono'd 2332 fps.....and puts 6 shots in 2.5" at 55 yards. BUT....it has recoil VERY similar to a 470 NE and the such.
If you find a K-gun that you like, grab it and run.....nothing wrong with those rifles.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I just bought a Krieghoff in 450/400 and love it.It is very accurate and really strong built.I looked at a Heym but couldn't afford it.I am very pleased with the Krieghoff.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
And in the heat of the moment I don't notice the extra effort required to cock the TRIGGERS.

This must be a misprint! Lord Will the doesn't use rifles with TRIGGERS! Please tell us this isn't so. Either that or have one of the damn things removed immediately! You sir have a reputation to uphold.

Last week I shot a Krieghoff classic in 8x75RS with handloaded ammunition: 200grs Accubund and 196 grs Sellier&Bellot soft points with 70grs of R905. Precision like a good bolt action, 8 shots in fast follow on 2 inches at 100 meters! What do you want more?

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
And in the heat of the moment I don't notice the extra effort required to cock the TRIGGERS.

This must be a misprint! Lord Will the doesn't use rifles with TRIGGERS! Please tell us this isn't so. Either that or have one of the damn things removed immediately! You sir have a reputation to uphold.

More specifically, cocking two hammers for it's single trigger.

Thank god for that Will. You had me worried there for a moment!

Hello! I own a Classic in 9,3x74r, a wonderful accurate rifle! And I think all Classics are, that's the best with them! I cant complain about balance, its much better than any bolt rifle. Maybe H&H and others balance better, they might. I could take some more weight in front, a big5-caliber barrel set will fix that.

I own a k classic .470. Hate the cocking device, reason: follow wounded DG into the long grass and thick jesse, how should you carry the thing ? uncocked correct? if you get a charge from close quarters in the thick which I have, (lion w/ Alister Norton)It is NOT POSSIBLE to cock the rifle whilst on your shoulder 35 # force cannot be generated by your thumb in that position. Other than this no problem other than mine doesn't fit me as well as it could.

Not sure I understand having your rifle on your shoulder ready for instant action with the safety on, Krieghoff or otherwise.

If I was after a wounded something and facing an imminent charge, I sure as hell wouldn't want the safety on no matter what.

It would be different if you were waltzing along looking for a wounded buff in the open and had the rifle down, there there would be time for the safety regardless of type.

Maybe you were instructed by the PH to keep the safety on so he didn't get dinged, but they're not God. If it was such an imminent death situation you should be really up shoulder-to-shoulder and not lagging behind, like in the videos where the client claims to be shoulder-to-shoulder but really isn't.

There is a certain point in time, when I am approaching game, wounded or not, or when in stuff so thick I cannot see very far, but know the game is there that I go "safety off".

For Krieghoff/Blaser type guns this means "cocked" as they have no safety.

All other safety rules still apply, as in where your muzzle is pointing, and finger off the trigger till the sights are on the "target".

By doing this I eleminate any gun noise, and any movement of my hands from my firing grip.

Should a shooting situation not develop, when I feel the time is right, I go back to safety on, or decock, depending on the gun.

Also I have practiced enough with the Krieghoff/Blaser style of guns that I automatically cock the gun before it gets to my shoulder, from what ever position I am carrying it in, ie right hand, left hand, African Carry, what ever.

The only time I cock the gun from my shoulder is if I am already in some sort of shooting position while hunting, waiting to see game.
One example of this would be while in a blind or some sort of stand. I do not cock the gun till the barrel is out the window or shooting port.

It is simply a matter of knowing your equipment and having enough practice to handle it properly.

I actually find the cocking of a Blaser easier and faster to use than a Model70 three position safety from the full on position.

quote:

I actually find the cocking of a Blaser easier and faster to use than a Model70 three position safety from the full on position.

True enough, but you are entering dangerous country questioning a M70 safety!

Guys,
Observations noted and respected, However I feel much more at home with my Armeria De Madrid .500 with the standard top tang instant on off mech. requires no force, can be safely carried in all circumstances. I shot a lion poorly, we walked side by side as you say 2 guys with guns and 5 trackers evenly spaced just trying to "flush" the cat from the bush, 6 hours rifle cocked at the shoulder isn't realistic. if you own a "k" go get it and try to cock in any position but full down. pull even halfway up and try it. And yes all saftey rules do apply all the time no matter what. The point was I had it on FIRE for 6 hours in some nasty nasty stuff PER the PH. And Will, when a lion comes from 12 feet you have precious little time. I loved my K untill then. As a matter of fact I used it this year as the .500 ammo, TSA problem had me not wanting to gamble. Remember guys this is personal preference not facts, right?

You were there, Dude. Gotta do what's best. Glad it worked out for you.

If you all re-read my post, you'll see that some like it and some don't. I spoke with Zwayne van de Merwer (hope I didn't butcher the spelling TOO bad)at Dallas this year and HE uses a K-gun in .500 and thinks it's the BEST client double going....for the same reasons we're having this "debate"...the cocking mechanism. He says it's very safe and you GENERALLY know when you're going to shoot...and simply push it forward and fire.
In Steve's case....wounded lion follow-up, I would have either had a conventional safety double OR had the K-gun cocked. Wounded DG is no joke and if the weapon is shoulder mounted....it is most likely pointed forward and not toward your trackers/PH.
Of course...that's my $.02 worth.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

No ejectors. Otherwise fine rifle at a GREAT price....If I were to buy a scope sighted .375 it would possiblly be a K-Hoff (or chapuis) as they are extremely accruate and very reliable. The ejector issue would be moot in my case as I would be using the rifle primarily for plains game.

IMHO,

JW

Nothing, love mine and its a tackdriver if I do my part.
Nitro450exp

quote:

Most do not like the chrome plated action, which makes the rifle look cheap, along with the varnish like wood finish, and rolled on, or lazer engraveing

??????? The action on my 470 is blued with very little engraving. The wood is average but it is an oil finish.

I have been in the long grass with my Krieghoff getting up close and personal with buff. When the rifle is moved to the shoulder it is always automaticaly cocked.

Yes, agree, you unsafe/cock when you shoulder the rifle.

The different in safety/cock'er is when a pair of hunters are stombling around looking for game with guns shambered, then the Krieghoff is perfectly safe. And a lot faster than a conventional tang safety gun with this extra "carrier safety".

The three Cardinal Rules of Gun Safety

• Keep your finger off the trigger!
• Keep your finger off the Damn Trigger!
• Keep your Damn Finger of the Damn Trigger!

Krieghoff is a good rifle. The cocking piece is not traditional and no one likes change.
I think it is a good system.

Becoming proficient at anything requires patience and practice. Lots of practice!

Rusty right on! You got to keep your booger hooks off the trgger to be totaly safe!

I like the K-gun very trim and usually nice wood. I'd like one in a 450/400, but I like blasers so I guess my vote does not count!

Ed

Thank you all for the variety of opinions. I didn't have any choice with this rifle, it was take it or leave it. Since it was only going to take about $3500 out of my pocket, I took it.

As it is the first and only double rifle that I've held, I have no basis for comparison with a more traditional design.

I love the rifle, and with the limited amount of shooting I have done so far with my cast bullets, it looks like it's going to be a shooter too.

Congrats!

One Ph I elephant hunt with loves his Kreighoff 470, and it has saved his or his client's, trackers' or gamescouts' hides more than once.

JPK

$3500!!??....you're a bigger thief than I am! .

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

The rifle itself didn't cost me a dime, I won it in the NRA African Safari Sweepstakes last year. The $3500 was the income tax I had to pay on the retail value of the prize package, which was $13K. That included the rifle, Schmidt & Bender scope w/ quick release rings and a fitted aluminum case. When I found out I won it, I was beside myself. That is until they told me about the 1099 form they would be sending to the IRS.

here is my opinion about Kreighoff rifles:

I like them, but the first time I ever shot one, it turned me off. It was a .470 and during recoil after the first shot, my hand moved forward from the grip and actually moved the cocking device! When I pulled the rear trigger, NOTHING HAPPENED! Why? Because I de-cocked the rifle when I pulled the first trigger!

Now, I have to admit that I was new to DRs at the time, but that isn't an excuse - I really love the idea behind the decocking device, but when your life is on the line, I still abide by KISS.

yes, I would buy a kreighoff for a DR hunt, but I would make sure it is an extension of my body before I went into the field of battle with the thing.

Ted.....yes the government loves their cut. If the pricks just did something constructive with it I wouldn't complain so much....not TOO much to ask...do you think?

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I don't like the Kreighoff, it is over engineered for one thing IMO, and that action is too long and staight and it balances like a bazooka, again just my opine..The safety is an accident looking for a place to happen IMO..I use my doubles and if they do not fit me or suit me I have no use for them, thus my dislike for the Krieghoff..To each his own however and if someone likes them then good for them, that is what makes free interprise and I'm all for that.

Zim bumber sticker. "don't steal, the government hates competition"