I could not find this in the archives. Can .410 shotgun shells be fired in a .450/.400-3" rifle? If so, wouldn't they need to be the 21/2" shells and not the 3" shells?

Thanks,

wpe

Wow, why didn't I think of that. I'll have to try it. I know they fit, feed and fire through my Mauser 458.

quote:

Originally posted by wpe2:
I could not find this in the archives. Can .410 shotgun shells be fired in a .450/.400-3" rifle? If so, wouldn't they need to be the 21/2" shells and not the 3" shells?

Thanks,

wpe

stop please and think about what you are suggesting, you want to shoot something that is a .458" bore down a .410" bore, this can only go terribly wrong, SO DONT
if you are lucky you will only damage your gun.

you could try a 410 in a 450 NE but it would not give you anything remotely near a usebly patteren. and could still damage the gun, but with a smaller chance of blowing yourself up in the process

best

peter

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

I agree!

First off the .410 slug is not a .458 projectile but .410 dia, and the problem is not the bullet as much is the case of the .410 shot shell. It’s whole length is not nearly as large as the 450/400NE case, actually the rim of a .410 shell is almost the same size as the NECK of the 450/400NE cartridge would fall all the way into the chamber away from the firing pin. Even if it did fire the .410 case walls would explode in the chamber. A chamber adapter might work to take up the space in the chamber that is too large in diameter for the 410 shot shell!
..................................

WOW!!!! AR home to many of Scholars and Champions...

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Wow, why didn't I think of that. I'll have to try it. I know they fit, feed and fire through my Mauser 458.

458Win
Re your post above, i think your tag line should read
""The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubt
but's it's people like me who load shotgun shells in a rifle and fire them, then pick up a Darwin Award.


I think this thread has to be in line as the (current) winner of the 2011 Darwin Award.

I suppose in breeding is alive and well in Mississippi by the looks of things


I sometimes wish we didn't have internet forums, then the way god intended evolution to occur
(by boys being born in a slightly higher ratio to girls on the basis of more boys die early) would still hold true.

.

quote:

I think this thread has to be in line as the (current) winner of the 2011 Darwin Award.

You never know what will set people off. Why is the award named after a town in Australia?

Perth?



Just Kidding!!!

quote:

Originally posted by MichiganShooter:

quote:

I think this thread has to be in line as the (current) winner of the 2011 Darwin Award.

You never know what will set people off. Why is the award named after a town in Australia?

Hope this helps.


Darwin's Theory of Evolution - ie Charles Darwin. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin

As in the process of Natural selection - The strong survive and reproduce, the weak die.


The Darwin Awards are so named because "Honoring those who improve the species...
by accidentally removing themselves from it! "

In other words, by doing something stupid that gets themselves killed,
thereby helping society by not allowing any more breeding from them - so
the process of Natural Selection at work.

.

Sorry to upset so many. I did not intend to try it unless it had been proven to be feasible. I am new to double rifles and I am certain that I have seen this discussed on some forum, somewhere. In many places it is said, "The only dumb question is the one you do not ask." Is that no longer the courtesy on AR? I assure you that I am ashamed now that I asked the question. My new .450/.400 shoots a .410 caliber bullet, and I mistakenly thought that .410 shotgun shells were the only shotgun shell that was expressed in caliber rather than gauge. Again, I'm sincerely sorry to have dumbed-down the AR forum.

wpe

500N,

Thank you.

So are you saying the award ceremony is held in Darwin or Perth?

quote:

Originally posted by wpe2:
Sorry to upset so many. I did not intend to try it unless it had been proven to be feasible. I am new to double rifles and I am certain that I have seen this discussed on some forum, somewhere. In many places it is said, "The only dumb question is the one you do not ask." Is that no longer the courtesy on AR? I assure you that I am ashamed now that I asked the question. My new .450/.400 shoots a .410 caliber bullet, and I mistakenly thought that .410 shotgun shells were the only shotgun shell that was expressed in caliber rather than gauge. Again, I'm sincerely sorry to have dumbed-down the AR forum.

wpe

Your lucky, 458Win dumbed it down worse by saying he'd already fired one in a 458WinMag.

.

quote:

Originally posted by wpe2:
Sorry to upset so many. I did not intend to try it unless it had been proven to be feasible. I am new to double rifles and I am certain that I have seen this discussed on some forum, somewhere. In many places it is said, "The only dumb question is the one you do not ask." Is that no longer the courtesy on AR? I assure you that I am ashamed now that I asked the question. My new .450/.400 shoots a .410 caliber bullet, and I mistakenly thought that .410 shotgun shells were the only shotgun shell that was expressed in caliber rather than gauge. Again, I'm sincerely sorry to have dumbed-down the AR forum.

wpe

WPE,don't worry about dumbing down AR there are plenty of folks for that here! Nobody was trying to call you names, and the jibs were friendly among members here. Your question was perfectly in line, and deserved an answer. 500N's post was aimed at 458Win not you. The "quote" 500N posted is the tag line in 458Win's posts.

The question was answered and that is that. Without a chamber insert shooting a 410 shot shell is not feasible in a 450/400NE 3" chamber.

Actually if makes more sense when shooting the .410 slug shell in a 458 Win Mag chamber, and it will likely feed as well, as Phil says. I doubt that shot shell would pattern very well in a long rifled barrel, but the lead slug might be OK for short range. The 410 shotgun shells are used in several weapons chambered for 45 Long Colt. I have a double barreled pistol the fires both .410 shot shells, and 45 Long colt, that I carry in my back pack when hunting on the tundra. I use it for close in ptarmigan in the willows.

Don't knock it unless you have tried it

I'm not recommending it but in my rifle it works perfectly and with #9 shot I can use the rifle to sting bears that I don't want to kill but still have a full magazine box of 500 gr loads ready to go.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Don't knock it unless you have tried it

I'm not recommending it but in my rifle it works perfectly and with #9 shot I can use the rifle to sting bears that I don't want to kill but still have a full magazine box of 500 gr loads ready to go.

Fine, you do it, I'll continue to use shotguns for shotgun cartridges
and rifles for rifle cartridges (unless it's a Paradox).

Sorry, I'm happy to play around with reloads but not a fan of pushing the envelope that far.

.

Shotgun pressures in a rifle are a lot different than the other way around.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Shotgun pressures in a rifle are a lot different than the other way around.

I couldn't care less about pressure, WGAF - What is supporting the case in the chamber ?


Will anyone on here (other than 458Win) tell me that shooting shotgun shells out of a rifle chambered in another calibre is a
sensible / wise thing to do.

I am happy to stand corrected if the weight
of opinion is against me.

.

500N

Maybe while you and your mates are at your next local Mensa meeting you could have a look at this.

http://www.taurususa.com/produ...&breadcrumbseries=41

Apparently it's no big deal to fire .410 shells through a .45 cal chamber and barrel. Wadaya think now?

Here if that doesn't do it for you have a little look see here..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.410_bore

You see the .410 shot shell is actually very close in diameter to a .458 and shooting .410's through a .458 has been done for years with no adverse affects.It is perfectly safe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.410_bore

Thats a revolver not a rifle buddy so apple to oranges try again..

Same diameter same length case. Hmmm.. I edited my post before you posted yours have a look now.

I'm not trying to convince anybody to do what I am doing but I have done it for twenty-five years with no problems.
I also used to have a TC contender that was made to fire both 410 shotshells and the 45 Colt

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
500N

Maybe while you and your mates are at your next local Mensa meeting you could have a look at this.

Apparently it's no big deal to fire .410 shells through a .45 cal chamber and barrel. Wadaya think now?

I knew of that and know it has been done, and as said, it is a pistol not a 458 Win Mag.


surestrike
Let me ask you a question. Would you do it ?

Would you put a rifle up to your shoulder with a shotgun shell loaded
in the chamber, albeit held by the Rim / Claw only and pull the trigger.

.

500N not only would I, I have done it. It is a pretty common trick up in AK. Not only does a .458 WM feed fire and eject a .410 shell it completely seals in the chamber there is no gas blow back and the empty shell ejects with no visible dimensional change IE it is supported in the chamber.

I first learned about this when I was living in Northern AK. I met an old Eskimo guy who was hunting ptarmigan with his model 70 in .458 using .410 shells.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:


Will anyone on here (other than 458Win) tell me that shooting shotgun shells out of a rifle chambered in another calibre is a
sensible / wise thing to do.

I am happy to stand corrected if the weight
of opinion is against me.

.

500, Since you obviously have not tried it and have no experience with it Why do you suggest my opinion is invalid ?
Thinking outside the box is not necessarily "dumbing down"

500N I see nothing dangerous in firing a .410 shot shell in a 458 Win Mag chamber, unless you wanted to reload the .410 case! Because if will certainly swell the shot case.

For Phil's purpose it makes sense, because the rifle is far stronger than it needs to be to contain the very low pressure of the shot shell, and if it extracts, and ejects reliably I see no down side to the practice, with 3 full house 458 Win Mag rounds below if the bear decides he doesn't like being stung. For that purpose I would have zero concern in fireing it in that rifle.

Now the attempt to shoot it in a 450/400NE 3" chamber is an exercise in futility, because it will simply fall to far into the chamber, and with nothing to support the case head in the chamber the primer will be too deep in the chamber, or not centered in the chamber for the fireing pin to hit the primer. IOWs it will not work!

Mac,

Thanks for the condolences. You always seem to be the gentleman who stays above the fray. I don't think 500N thinks Mr. Shoemaker is from Mississippi, however. I would take 458Win's advice on most anything pertaining to hunting and firearms. Thanks again,

wpe

P.S.--My apologies to any of my Mississippi brethren that I may have embarrassed. Hopefully, this will be my last post on this thread!

IF you can make it fire, DO NOT expect a good shot pattern. The rifling will play hell on it.

The only "good" pattern will be with in feet of the muzzle.

Keith

Come on 500, you're smarter than that.


In no way, is a 410 going to stress, or over pressure a 458 winmag or lott rifle. It simply doesn't make enough pressure.


Whats more, the plastic case, has enough give in it, that it will seal the slight difference in the case and chamber, and extract like it was meant to be fired in that gun.

When I first got my Krieghoff .458 O/U DR, I used the interchangeable 20 gauge barrels to shoot skeet with, thinking that any practice with the stock would carry over to rifle barrels in snap shooting.

Since I had the rifle barrels along at the gun club, inevitably the question of shooting .410 shells through the .458 came up. Someone had also been experimenting with a Thompson Center .45 Long Colt/.410 arrangement (now declared illegal, I believe) so there didn't seem to any danger involved, and I shot several rounds of skeet with the .410 barrels, both with iron sights and with a scope.

My scores were nothing to brag about, and the fired cases were unuseable for reloading, but otherwise no problems. The plastic shot column protected the bore, so there was no danger of leading.

I know it is not quite the same, but way back, when I was a kid, I had a neighbor who shot 410's in his trapdoor 45/70. This was when ammo was sold at the local corner store in a big jar, by the piece and you used what gun was available for everything. As I recall, he gave it a wrap or two of what we called toilet paper (the index pages from a Sears Roebuck catalogue). I remember him using a stick to remove empties. Don't know if the extractor was broken or the chamber was oversized. He used it for squirrel hunting. Of course, we ringed shot shells for deer hunting, too.
Bfly

I think this thread is a "Myth buster" project & has some how crept into a Specialist double rifle forum.

Having read Phil's articles for years I know that he uses many tricks to get things working in the Alaskan wilderness since he can't go around the corner to get help.

I guess we need a new forum for DIY, wilderness survival tricks etc.

IOW, We cannot discuss "home brew" in a Single Malt forum.

What ?!?! You can't brew single malt?
Maybe if I boil my home brew Becharof Black Porter up through the .458 barrel of Ole Ugly and then up through the barrel of the 400 - attached with gorilla tape - and let it drip into an old ammo can ?

I can then serve it in either .410 hulls or .458 cases.

Phil

I would fly to Alaska just to try it



SSR

Intersting question. I was about to ask if it would be possible to load a 450-400 with 41 caliber shot capsules or 44 caliber capsules. I thought with all the discussion about snakes it would be handy to have a couple in my belt shell holder. Might also work on a retarded francolin. Phil's response has given me the courage to ask. No, I wasn't born in Mississippi!

A friend wanting a snake load for his .458 Lott asked if I could help him out. I tried a .410 shell thinking it would be a easy solution. It loaded in the magazine and was picked up by the bolt, extractor claw and chambered easily. Unfortunately I only got a light striker hit that would not detonate the primer. In the end I built a shot shell for him using .458 Lott brass tossing a load of 6s and or 7 1/2s at an effective range of 15m....

One of the reasons the 410 shells work in my 458 is that the extractor hold them in place for the firing pin to strike them. One of my guides had a push feed 458 M-70 and his rifle would not work so he loaded some 458 cases with 45 plastic shot cups and used them. He was able to get twice the shot in his than the 410 shells offered.

Now, for all the folks who don't like to hear true stories I'll offer a caveat - do not try this at home - 500 is correct that we should never shoot anything but proper factory ammo in rifles determained by a qualified authority to be safe.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
What ?!?! You can't brew single malt?
Maybe if I boil my home brew Becharof Black Porter up through the .458 barrel of Ole Ugly and then up through the barrel of the 400 - attached with gorilla tape - and let it drip into an old ammo can ?

I can then serve it in either .410 hulls or .458 cases.

I'd love to try that Phil! I might bring along some South Indian "Arrak" to go with it! ....and it will be in a foot ball bladder with the neck tied...just as we used to buy it during my university days & the brief spell of prohibition!