MacD37 had a good idea. How many Sabatti owners out there have purchased the DR and had problems?

Eric

Results (25 votes counted so far):
What type of regulation problems have you encountered with your Sabatti DR?
16	(64%)
		no problems - muzzles clean
3	(12%)
		no problems - muzzles dremelled
0	(0%)
		returned for regulation work-fixed
1	(4%)
		returned for regulation work-problems continue
4	(16%)
		returned for refund
0	(0%)
		sold - due to regulation issues
1	(4%)
		sold - general dissatisfaction
See Poll Form

I think you are over evaluating this; just go buy one and if you don't like it, take it back. Gathering all this data won't change the actual rifle you get. You already know that there are Sabatti lovers and Sabatti haters; none have changed sides yet.

dpcd,

Amen.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I think you are over evaluating this; just go buy one and if you don't like it, take it back. Gathering all this data won't change the actual rifle you get. You already know that there are Sabatti lovers and Sabatti haters; none have changed sides yet.

You'll either get a good one or not. Probably better chances of getting a good one now days as compared to earlier. If for no other reason than the word is out concerning what to look for.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:



You'll either get a good one or not. Probably better chances of getting a good one now days as compared to earlier. If for no other reason than the word is out concerning what to look for.

I think Todd has it nailed here! I'd agree that your chances of getting a good one is far better now than it was in the begining.

The poll as of right now only reflects the three people who post here that are owners of good ones, and the others who got beat up over the bad buys they made are reluctant to join in on any thread on Sabatti doubles! We may see more down the road, because there were certainly more than three who had to return them!
............................................................................

As a lot of you know, I had one that shot great and I posted the targets. However, I just could not live with the dremeled barrel and returned it for a full refund. Unquestionably had my rifle not had that issue I would have kept it and without reservation, I'd take one with good barrels over a Merkel ANY DAY.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
I'd take one with good barrels over a Merkel ANY DAY.

Interesting comment. The Merkel is a proven performer with a reputation of being a strong, reliable weapon that provides value for the money with a company that stands behind it's product. The Sabatti, not so much. Yes, Cabelas stands behind them but that isn't the company that makes or imports them. How many Merkels have had to be returned due to shoddy workmanship?

Other than price, I can't think of a single thing that would give the Sabatti a leg up on Merkel. Just as other than price, I can't think of a single thing that would give the Merkel a leg up on Hyem!

Todd: I admit my basis for this is purely anectdotal based on comparing my rifle to two Merkels owned by friends of mine. Aside the fact both Merkels had doubling issues when the rear trigger was pulled first, the plastic grip cap was a real turnoff too. I hated the Sabbati recoil pad, but the finish, caliber of wood and fit just seemed better. All this for substantially less money too. It's just an opinion based on my limited experience with doubles.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Todd: I admit my basis for this is purely anectdotal based on comparing my rifle to two Merkels owned by friends of mine. Aside the fact both Merkels had doubling issues when the rear trigger was pulled first, the plastic grip cap was a real turnoff too. I hated the Sabbati recoil pad, but the finish, caliber of wood and fit just seemed better. All this for substantially less money too. It's just an opinion based on my limited experience with doubles.

Your basis is flawed if your friends pulled the rear triggers first. No double rifle, period, should be designed to pull the rear trigger first. Merkels, and all other doubles that I know of, are regulated with the front trigger pulled first, and the trigger pull adjusted for front -to- rear firing.

If you're shooting your rear trigger first, you shouldn't be shooting a double rifle. The fear of doubling is a fear of technique or ability, not of the guns capability.

If a gun doubles when proper technique is applied, then it should be adjusted. Strumming of the trigger finger is still the #1 cause of doubling, not gun malfunction. One should not alter proper technique for fear.

Nonsense. While it is customary to pull the front trigger first, there are countless examples of hunters loading a soft in one barrel and a solid in the other, then choosing which one to shoot. The Merkel owners were trying out that option and both rifles doubled when the rear trigger was fired first so strumming was not even in the equation. Out of curiosity, I did the same thing with my VC and I had no problems shooting the rear trigger first several times. Then again a Merkel ain't no VC either...

While I strongly believe shooting the rear trigger first is almost as objectionable as owning and shooting a Blaser , I 100% agree that a properly functioning Double Rifle SHOULD be able to fire either trigger first. Without that ability, one of the primary benefits of having the immediate and silent selection between a solid and soft is negated.

Any rifle that doubles regardless of which trigger is pulled first, needs attention. Strumming is probably the #1 cause but if doubling is caused by a mechanical issue, it isn't right.

Now for you S-2 boys, if you also pull the rear trigger first, well ...

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Nonsense. While it is customary to pull the front trigger first, there are countless examples of hunters loading a soft in one barrel and a solid in the other, then choosing which one to shoot. The Merkel owners were trying out that option and both rifles doubled when the rear trigger was fired first so strumming was not even in the equation. Out of curiosity, I did the same thing with my VC and I had no problems shooting the rear trigger first several times. Then again a Merkel ain't no VC either...

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
While I strongly believe shooting the rear trigger first is almost as objectionable as owning and shooting a Blaser , I 100% agree that a properly functioning Double Rifle SHOULD be able to fire either trigger first. Without that ability, one of the primary benefits of having the immediate and silent selection between a solid and soft is negated.

Any rifle that doubles regardless of which trigger is pulled first, needs attention. Strumming is probably the #1 cause but if doubling is caused by a mechanical issue, it isn't right.

Now for you S-2 boys, if you also pull the rear trigger first, well ...

Jorge, and Todd I agree that a double rifle shouldn’t double when either barrel is fired first! Jeorge’s statement that most buffalo hunters will usually load a soft in the right barrel and a solid in the left. The idea of this is not to give you a choice of which type of bullet to fire first, contrary to popular belief. This is to fire a soft first because it does the most tissue damage, and a buff will usually take a couple of steps forward before turning to run, so that your second shot will be a solid for a going away shot.

When hunting buffalo I always load my double that way! I load any make of double the same way when hunting buffalo. Yet I never double the rifle and that includes my two Merkels! I will say here that I have no idea how or why but three different people have doubled my 470NE double when pulling the rear trigger first, but it isn’t the rifle, because I often pull the rear trigger first on that rifle and I have never in ten years doubled that rifle no matter which barrel I fire first.

This has puzzled me too and I can’t figure why they double this rifle when I never do and many others do not either! The only thing I can figure is the rifle doesn’t fit these three guys as well as it does me. It seems to me if it were the rifle it would do that with me as well, and many other guys have fired that rifle back trigger first without a problem as well. That tells me they are doing something that the rest of us are not.

Regardless of the reason this happens to those three guys, I do not think it is the rifle, and I have two Merkels and the other one is also one I have fired both ways and still have only doubled it one time in over ten years, and that time it was a definite strumming of the back trigger when my wet finger slipped off the front trigger and hit the back one. One of the three who doubled my 470NE Merkel told me every time he fired a double back trigger first he doubled them no matter the make. That guy was Reann Vusloo the PH and Owner of Shingani Safaris. I don’t know the reason so you guys tell me!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:



You'll either get a good one or not. Probably better chances of getting a good one now days as compared to earlier. If for no other reason than the word is out concerning what to look for.

I think Todd has it nailed here! I'd agree that your chances of getting a good one is far better now than it was in the begining.

The poll as of right now only reflects the three people who post here that are owners of good ones, and the others who got beat up over the bad buys they made are reluctant to join in on any thread on Sabatti doubles! We may see more down the road, because there were certainly more than three who had to return them!
............................................................................

I'm sure there are more who returned them. And judging from the current results of the poll, it looks like there are even more who enjoyed them.



Lots of hate for the Sabatti's, and the majority seems to come from people who feel threatened by a "cheap" entry level double that does everything a Merkel or Chapuis does, at half the price.

I have been looking at the Sabatti in the 45-70 and in 9.4 and wonder what would be a better caliber to buy?

Better? HMMM; I think the Sab is regulated for the Hornady 350 grain bullet; I might be wrong on that. If so, get the 9.3. If I am going with .45 cal, I want to be able to shoot 400 grainers and if I am limited to lighter bullets, the 9.3 will shoot flatter. Hell, get one of each. Both have their uses. I have guns in both and still can't explain it.

When the Sabatti's first came out I was skeptical. However, now that I have handled several and shot one, I think if you can get one that shoots, they are a good entry level double that will serve to get more guys into double rifles and that's a good thing in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Nonsense. While it is customary to pull the front trigger first, there are countless examples of hunters loading a soft in one barrel and a solid in the other, then choosing which one to shoot. The Merkel owners were trying out that option and both rifles doubled when the rear trigger was fired first so strumming was not even in the equation. Out of curiosity, I did the same thing with my VC and I had no problems shooting the rear trigger first several times. Then again a Merkel ain't no VC either...

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
While I strongly believe shooting the rear trigger first is almost as objectionable as owning and shooting a Blaser , I 100% agree that a properly functioning Double Rifle SHOULD be able to fire either trigger first. Without that ability, one of the primary benefits of having the immediate and silent selection between a solid and soft is negated.

Any rifle that doubles regardless of which trigger is pulled first, needs attention. Strumming is probably the #1 cause but if doubling is caused by a mechanical issue, it isn't right.

Now for you S-2 boys, if you also pull the rear trigger first, well ...

Jorge, and Todd I agree that a double rifle shouldn’t double when either barrel is fired first! Jeorge’s statement that most buffalo hunters will usually load a soft in the right barrel and a solid in the left. The idea of this is not to give you a choice of which type of bullet to fire first, contrary to popular belief. This is to fire a soft first because it does the most tissue damage, and a buff will usually take a couple of steps forward before turning to run, so that your second shot will be a solid for a going away shot.

When hunting buffalo I always load my double that way! I load any make of double the same way when hunting buffalo. Yet I never double the rifle and that includes my two Merkels! I will say here that I have no idea how or why but three different people have doubled my 470NE double when pulling the rear trigger first, but it isn’t the rifle, because I often pull the rear trigger first on that rifle and I have never in ten years doubled that rifle no matter which barrel I fire first.

This has puzzled me too and I can’t figure why they double this rifle when I never do and many others do not either! The only thing I can figure is the rifle doesn’t fit these three guys as well as it does me. It seems to me if it were the rifle it would do that with me as well, and many other guys have fired that rifle back trigger first without a problem as well. That tells me they are doing something that the rest of us are not.

Regardless of the reason this happens to those three guys, I do not think it is the rifle, and I have two Merkels and the other one is also one I have fired both ways and still have only doubled it one time in over ten years, and that time it was a definite strumming of the back trigger when my wet finger slipped off the front trigger and hit the back one. One of the three who doubled my 470NE Merkel told me every time he fired a double back trigger first he doubled them no matter the make. That guy was Reann Vusloo the PH and Owner of Shingani Safaris. I don’t know the reason so you guys tell me!

It doesn't seem likely that the shooters trigger finger jumps forward to hit the front of the front trigger. But maybe it does. There is actually a small time period between when the sear breaks and the bullet leaves the muzzle. When shooting a 1911 in competition, on occasion I have had time to move the muzzle to a better position on the target after the sear breaks and before the gun fires. Is it possible that in the rush to get to the second trigger the shooter moves his hand and trigger finger to the other trigger just after the sear breaks and before the cartridge fires? If the trigger finger is on the front trigger when the rifle goes into recoil from the first shot, a second is fired without intent.

I suggest that if you have trouble with doubling either way, front to rear or rear to front that you try this little trick. When you pull the trigger pull back to the trigger stop and hold it there during recoil. If you move your finger too soon, you loosen your grip and this can allow your hand and trigger finger to slip.

465H&H

DPCD:

How do you like your 450/400 K-gun?

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:
I'm sure there are more who returned them. And judging from the current results of the poll, it looks like there are even more who enjoyed them.

I would say that only three pro Sabatti posters doesn't indicate a great acceptance of their quality.

quote:

Lots of hate for the Sabatti's, and the majority seems to come from people who feel threatened by a "cheap" entry level double that does everything a Merkel or Chapuis does, at half the price.

Does everything a Merkel or Chapuis does EXCEPT shoot properly!

AK_Stik, I think you are mistaken about the word "HATE" in regard to the rifle it's self! What people who are into double rifles HATE is a company who puts out shoddy work to simply meet a target price!

You have to understand the fact that double rifles are one type of rifle that exhibits very high quality workmanship even in the simple working rifles. When a company decides to spend the time and cost decorate a rifle with cheap laser engraving and simply by pass the most important thing in regard to double rifles REGULATION, we see that as dressing a pig in lace! They could have in this case added $1K to the price and regulated the rifles properly, and still had a rifle that would be a bargain in anybody's book! Yet they chose to spend the money on decoration rather than building a rifle that shoot properly. After all that is what a rifle is supposed to do well. No other builder of double rifle that I know of other than Sabatti, and Winchester has put out a decorated pig without the most important feature in a double rifle, PROPER REGULATION!

None of this has anything to do with having an elitist attitude. A double rifle no matter how cheap or rough finish should shoot properly and if it doesn't then who should we blame, the guy who brings the fault to the attention of the potential buyer so he doesn't get burned?

Let's get real here guys, a poorly made product is not worth any price, and a double rifle that is not properly regulated should be shunned like the plague IMO!

...................................................................................

I think Mac is right. The key is how are they regulated. It can be done with lasers but the best way is the old tried and true method and that takes time and adds to the cost. I would buy a Sabatti that shot well. However, my preference is to spend a bit more money and buy what I regard as a better quality gun. Chapuis, Krieghoff, and Merkel come to mind and you can usually find a used gun in excellent condition from one of these makers at a very attractive price. I've kinda turned into a Chapuis guy and no, the beavertail forearm doesn't bother me at all. I just got a new Chapuis "jungle" in .375 flanged and gosh does is shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Nonsense. While it is customary to pull the front trigger first, there are countless examples of hunters loading a soft in one barrel and a solid in the other, then choosing which one to shoot. The Merkel owners were trying out that option and both rifles doubled when the rear trigger was fired first so strumming was not even in the equation. Out of curiosity, I did the same thing with my VC and I had no problems shooting the rear trigger first several times. Then again a Merkel ain't no VC either...

You should be able to shoot the rear trigger first in any double rifle without concern for doubling. Of the two Merkels I recall that were sent back to Trussville because of this, someone had done a trigger job on them and made the trigger pulls too light. I believe Herbert at GSI adjusts the front trigger to 3.5 lbs and the rear to 4. I tried to get him to make one of mine 3 on the front, and he objected, and rightfully so I think.

Pulling the rear trigger first is one's perogative, but it's not the way the guns were designed or regulated to be shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
I think Mac is right. The key is how are they regulated. It can be done with lasers but the best way is the old tried and true method and that takes time and adds to the cost. I would buy a Sabatti that shot well. However, my preference is to spend a bit more money and buy what I regard as a better quality gun. Chapuis, Krieghoff, and Merkel come to mind and you can usually find a used gun in excellent condition from one of these makers at a very attractive price. I've kinda turned into a Chapuis guy and no, the beavertail forearm doesn't bother me at all. I just got a new Chapuis "jungle" in .375 flanged and gosh does is shoot.

Dave in regard to the laser’s use in regulating. That is only used in an adjustment jig to get a starting point with a regulater's educated guess on a target in the lab. Then the wedge is soft soldered in place for regulating on the range by trial and error. No other system will work properly. You can set the lasers the exact same way on twenty rifles of the same weight and chambering, and when targeted they will shoot twenty different places. That was the problem with Sabatti, they stopped with the jig and laser and when most didn't shoot well, out came the Dremmel!

On the Chapuis rifle you have nothing to worry about with any rifle they make! I’ve never seen a Chapuis rifle that wasn’t extremely accurate, and perfectly regulated.

For your and other potential buyers’ information, a good stock man can turn that B/T forend into a sleek little splinter one in a couple of days!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:


I would say that only three pro Sabatti posters doesn't indicate a great acceptance of their quality.

Except until yesterday, one of the "three" pro Sabatti guys, was out hunting with his Sabatti. Even if you remove 3 votes from the no issues category, there are still more guys here reporting no issues than there are with issues.


On the other hand, it seems like its always a small minorty of posters who complain about them, and the majority of the time, its the same two or three posters bashing them.

While not as pretty as my Chapuis, mine shoots just as well, and does everything that it does, for half the price. Its damn hard to see the justification for doubling the price of the gun, for a little bit prettier dressing.

For me, hate has nothing to do with the Sabatti issue. I simply want whatever I purchase to work correctly. If I purchase something expensive, I want it to look good and perform. If I'm trying to get performance at a low cost, I care less about looks just so long as it still performs. Sabatti's problem is that they tried to sell people on a pretty rifle (albeit using a cheap brand of makeup with that laser engraving) instead of selling a plain gun that functioned properly.

That isn't hate. That's the truth.

This is starting to sound like politics.

I vowed not to get into anymore Sabatti discussions but here I am again. Look, for the most part in life, you get what you pay for. Some Sabattis shoot great. My buddies 470 Sabatti is a good gun. It was worth what he paid for it. If Sabatti can generate more interest in double guns, I think it is a great thing. I say if you want a Sabatti, go for it but look around first. Sometimes on the used market, you can find a heck of a buy.

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:


I would say that only three pro Sabatti posters doesn't indicate a great acceptance of their quality.

Except until yesterday, one of the "three" pro Sabatti guys, was out hunting with his Sabatti. Even if you remove 3 votes from the no issues category, there are still more guys here reporting no issues than there are with issues.


On the other hand, it seems like its always a small minorty of posters who complain about them, and the majority of the time, its the same two or three posters bashing them.

While not as pretty as my Chapuis, mine shoots just as well, and does everything that it does, for half the price. Its damn hard to see the justification for doubling the price of the gun, for a little bit prettier dressing.

Good show now there are four who post here!

I would say a full 90% of the buyers of Sabattis sold have never heard of AR, and I’d bet now many of them wish they had been warned before they bought. In the early days the re-sale websites were full of Sabattis for sale by owner. There was a reason for that don’t you think!

I think if YOU had gotten one that was bad, and found out later that many of us knew about the problem and didn’t say anything you would be talking out of the other side of your key board!


AK That is the problem Sabatti spent the money of decoration instead of on the important factor, Regulation. I dare anyone to point to a double rifle maker any where who has the percentage of returns that Sabatti does.

AK as I said before I'm happy when a guy gets one that shoots, but the fact is there are many more who got them that do not! My problem with the Sabatti is they took liberties in an area that should have been done right and it wasn’t. The HEART of a double rifle is regulation and that is where they chose to cut cost! Should I have not warned folks of that fact?

AK, instead of shooting the messenger, what you should do is blame the people who did the work incorrectly! Simply because you got one that works, you should feel lucky that you weren’t one of the guys who got the ones that do not shoot properly. The level of bad regulation that Sabatti is producing has only come from one other maker in the world. The other company is Winchester with their Grand Euro, O/U double which was regulated the same way the Sabatti is,with a jig. The exception is the dremmiling being used by Sabatti, when the jig didn't work, alone in the industry.Neither nor a combination of both, is a proper way to regulate.

The same few who speak up on the Sabatti are blamed for the bad rep that Sabatti has here, when the blame belongs to Sabatti, because they are the people who failed to regulate the rifle properly! How are the guys who make folks aware of the problems at fault for a rifle that large numbers shoot unsatisfactorily? I think it would be a mistake for me or anyone else to not warn potential buyers of a problem with any product they become aware of. In the case of a very low priced double rifle, most who are drawn to them will have a large percentage that are not well versed on double rifles, and are going by looks more than anything.

If you will notice the people who you are cussing about this are people who have many years experience with double rifles, and understand the methods that work and the ones that are simply Shadetree Bailing Wire enginering. Sabatti's regulation come under the heading of the latter type!


.........................................................................................................................BYE!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
For me, hate has nothing to do with the Sabatti issue. I simply want whatever I purchase to work correctly. If I purchase something expensive, I want it to look good and perform. If I'm trying to get performance at a low cost, I care less about looks just so long as it still performs. Sabatti's problem is that they tried to sell people on a pretty rifle (albeit using a cheap brand of makeup with that laser engraving) instead of selling a plain gun that functioned properly.

That isn't hate. That's the truth.

This is starting to sound like politics.

It would seem, per the results of our little poll, the vast majority of the weapons function properly, without dremel regulation. And that the majority of owners seem pleased with their purchase.


I'm not saying the dremel work was right, or ok. What I, and several others have been saying is, the majority of the posts on Sabatti's has been very negative, for what has, atleast as far as AR's Sabatti's purchased, a small minority of the weapons sold.


I guess, it may be the "truth" if your upset that a minority of the guns have had improper regulation. But when claiming they don't regulate any of the guns properly, it becomes a lie pretty damn fast, when no one points out how the majority of rifles owned seem to work.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:


Good show now there are four who post here!

I would say a full 90% of the buyers of Sabattis sold have never heard of AR, and I’d bet now many of them wish they had been warned before they bought. In the early days the re-sale websites were full of Sabattis for sale by owner. There was a reason for that don’t you think!

And where is this number pulled from, aside from you? From our poll 73% have working guns, and only 1 gun was sold due to general dissatisfaction. Yet you'll calmly throw out how many of them regret having bought or not heard about them before.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I think if YOU had gotten one that was bad, and found out later that many of us knew about the problem and didn’t say anything you would be talking out of the other side of your key board!

Possibly, however, even before I'd fired it, I contacted Cabelas, and they were standing behind their product. Had they exchanged the weapon, and I got a suitable replacement, I'd have been a happy man.

I know of atleast two guns that have gone back to the factory, and one that went back to our very own Kebco, because it didn't work as advertised. Yet I hear no complaints about those brands. Here we have a much smaller sample, and few returns, and the whole batch and maker condemned. One has to wonder why.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
AK That is the problem Sabatti spent the money of decoration instead of on the important factor, Regulation. I dare anyone to point to a double rifle maker any where who has the percentage of returns that Sabatti does.

Can you post Sabatti return %? Per our poll results, I know of atleast 2 big name makers who've had that many weapons returned.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
AK as I said before I'm happy when a guy gets one that shoots, but the fact is there are many more who got them that do not! My problem with the Sabatti is they took liberties in an area that should have been done right and it wasn’t. The HEART of a double rifle is regulation and that is where they chose to cut cost! Should I have not warned folks of that fact?

The issue is not your warning people of the guns possibly having regulation issues and/or improper regulation.

The issue has been the constant/continual bad mouthing of the guns, by a few, when the majority seem to have proper/correct regulation.

You could sell me that perhaps MY gun was the odd duck, as its the only 92 Delux in 45-70 I've seen. But when 70 something% of polled users have guns that shoot correctly, I find it hard to swallow that all of the weapons are done incorrectly. If over half the guns are shooting the way they're supposed to, its hard to stand up and say none of them are getting regulated right.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
The same few who speak up on the Sabatti are blamed for the bad rep that Sabatti has here, when the blame belongs to Sabatti, because they are the people who failed to regulate the rifle properly! How are the guys who make folks aware of the problems at fault for a rifle that large numbers shoot unsatisfactorily? I think it would be a mistake for me or anyone else to not warn potential buyers of a problem with any product they become aware of. In the case of a very low priced double rifle, most who are drawn to them will have a large percentage that are not well versed on double rifles, and are going by looks more than anything.

I'm looking for these "Large numbers shoot unsatisfactory" I keep seeing these claims thrown out by people who own nicer, much more expensive weapons. I very rarely see evidence of this large number of guns. I know several other double owners who have them, and report similarly. Most of the guns seem to be ok, with a few that have issues.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
If you will notice the people who you are cussing about this are people who have many years experience with double rifles, and understand the methods that work and the ones that are simply Shadetree Bailing Wire enginering. Sabatti's regulation come under the heading of the latter type!


.........................................................................................................................BYE!

And typically people who don't have one. As I said, when the majority seem to report no issues, and then people who spent much more come down on the brand. Its almost like some people are becoming elitist, simply based upon how much you spend. Infact, I've seen some people come right out and say if they can't afford the entry level 5~ish K for a mid bored Chapuis, they should just stay the hell out of doubles.



This whole thing, has been over the repeated, and blatant lying and bashing about Sabatti's. And the misrepresented statistics about returns.

As double rifle owners, and shooters, I would think we'd be thrilled about a new gun coming to market, and opening it to new shooters who may not be able to afford a 5K rifle, or 10+ for a 40+ caliber gun.

But yet, we hear over and over these guns are "junk" and "trash" and how the majority are going back in for service or returned. Yet when a poll is put up, why mysteriously, are so very few owners unhappy? Why so few returned? Why so many work properly?

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
For me, hate has nothing to do with the Sabatti issue. I simply want whatever I purchase to work correctly. If I purchase something expensive, I want it to look good and perform. If I'm trying to get performance at a low cost, I care less about looks just so long as it still performs. Sabatti's problem is that they tried to sell people on a pretty rifle (albeit using a cheap brand of makeup with that laser engraving) instead of selling a plain gun that functioned properly.

That isn't hate. That's the truth.

This is starting to sound like politics.

It would seem, per the results of our little poll, the vast majority of the weapons function properly, without dremel regulation. And that the majority of owners seem pleased with their purchase.


I'm not saying the dremel work was right, or ok. What I, and several others have been saying is, the majority of the posts on Sabatti's has been very negative, for what has, atleast as far as AR's Sabatti's purchased, a small minority of the weapons sold.


I guess, it may be the "truth" if your upset that a minority of the guns have had improper regulation. But when claiming they don't regulate any of the guns properly, it becomes a lie pretty damn fast, when no one points out how the majority of rifles owned seem to work.

Yep, just like politics today. First the truth is called "Hate", then it becomes a "lie". This is the new reality today. Doesn't matter that the facts say otherwise. Facts such as Cabelas issuing full refunds because of the extensive dremmel "fixes" or that the new guns are now marked with an "X" on the serial numbers to differentiate between the old and new. I doubt this would have been necessary if the problem was with "A small minority of the weapons sold".

Not to mention that I've personally held and observed upwards of 35 Sabatti rifles in 3 Cabelas stores and 80% or more have been dremmeled. Hardly the minority.

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:
And typically people who don't have one.

I don't have one for two reasons! #1 I never buy a new brand of anything utill it is on the market a while to see how it turns out down the road! #2 in this case because I personally handled the first three Sabatti double rifle put on public display, and all three had the muzzles ground! Two of those rifles were sold that day, most likely people who had no idea what they were buying!

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As I said, when the majority seem to report no issues, and then people who spent much more come down on the brand. Its almost like some people are becoming elitist, simply based upon how much you spend.

There you go shouting the MAJORITY again! What you are purposely ignoring is 4 people are not a majority of Sabatti buyers but 4 people who post on this poll on Accurate Reloading! I'd bet that the MAJORITY of Sabatti buyers post mostly on sites that deal mostly with deer rifles and corn feeder box stands hunting nothing more dangerous than a whitetail. Most people who post on a dedicated double rifle forum are far more aware of what REAL regulation is and know that JIG and dremmel so-called regulation is shade tree quality work! It is quite evident that even here some do not know that.

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This whole thing, has been over the repeated, and blatant lying and bashing about Sabatti's. And the misrepresented statistics about returns.

Son you are getting a little serious from behind a key board where you are safe with you trash mouth accusations!

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As double rifle owners, and shooters, I would think we'd be thrilled about a new gun coming to market, and opening it to new shooters who may not be able to afford a 5K rifle, or 10+ for a 40+ caliber gun.

I would be happy as hell if the Sabatti had been a consistent value for the 5K it cost, so young guys could get into double rifles, Whether you believe it or not Sabatti has done the double rifle community a disservice with it's poor regulation practices,because some of those stung by this will never again buy a double rifle! Yet you can only cuss those who seem to see a little clearer than some who happened to get one that shoots.

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But yet, we hear over and over these guns are "junk" and "trash" and how the majority are going back in for service or returned. Yet when a poll is put up, why mysteriously, are so very few owners unhappy? Why so few returned? Why so many work properly?

Here you go again with 4 people being a majority! Man you are hopeless! Do you think Cabela’s sold only four or five of these things?

I recommend you go and buy two or three of the ones being discounted because they still have the regulation screwed up, and leave the ones (with an X in the serial )Cabela's has had the Sabatti company do right by their customers! Now that Cabela’s seems to have fixed the problem that you say never existed, I’ll probably buy one myself!

AK I would be honored if henceforth you would place me on your ignore list so you won’t accidently read one of my LYING posts!

……………………………………………………………………Now! I’m through with YOU! Buy all the Sabattis you want and recommend them to all your friends, but buy and recommend only the ones with no X that we have been lying about, so they can get in on the cluster F&#k!

Mac:

This is an endless argument and you are letting the Sabatti guys draw you in. You know what you want in a double.

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Originally posted by MacD37:

……………………………………………………………………Now! I’m through with YOU! Buy all the Sabattis you want and recommend them to all your friends, but buy and recommend only the ones with no X that we have been lying about, so they can get in on the cluster F&#k!

Stop making up statistics and "facts" and I'll stop calling them wrong/calling you out.


Either put up or shut up, you keep saying the majority of guns have issues, but now with 18 guns polled, we are not seeing a majority of the guns as having issues.


Ofcourse you probably won't reply, or will dismiss the numbers until you have something that suits your argument. But that is about modus operandi for the Sabatti hating gang.


As it stands right now, most of your claims are bald face lies.

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Originally posted by AK_Stick:
Ofcourse you probably won't reply, or will dismiss the numbers until you have something that suits your argument. But that is about modus operandi for the Sabatti hating gang.


As it stands right now, most of your claims are bald face lies.

Here's my reply! Big wind come from empty cave! Believe what ever you want!

..........................OVER and out!