At Cheaperthandirt.com I was at the Midway site this morning and noticed their prices on 450NE ammo now stand at 104/box! Well Cheaper than dirt has them for 84/box. Same for all the other Hornady stuff. jorge

And $81 at Omega Outfitters in Missouri. Shop around!

Never heard of them, thanks! just checked, they went up at that Omega place:
Hornady 450 Nitro 480 gr Dangerous Game
Manufacturer: HORNADY MFG CO
Mfg No: 8255
SKU: SS-52469
Description:

Price: $93.55

Go to Gun Broker, click on Ammunition, then Rifle Ammunition. Put "450" in the Search box, and you'll see listings by different folks and shops. A shop will usually have higher prices in their store than they have online.

Great price, if it wasn't Hornady fodder!

Good enough for shooting paper! Not much else, especially the DGX! DGS? Highest barrel strain and a round nose!

I'll stick with loading the CEBs at 1/2 the Hornady factory price.

Opinions vary and mine have flat noses....

I find the Hornady ammo in 470 to be very HOT and uncomfortable to shoot in my Manton!!
Shot some in the Eastern Oregon DRShoot...did very poorly....didn't have time to sight in and don't ahve a clue where it shoots either...obviously not same point as Kynoch!!
UUURRRGGGGHHHH!!
My fault all the way...
It shoots very well with Federals too!! I just didn't want to waste them on paper...

I have used Hornady DGS on buffalo,worked great!

Purely anecdotal but I had OUTSTANDING success with factory Hornady DGS on ele and buff and with the DGX on buffalo. Must have just been beginners luck!

Or honed, cold-blooded hunter instinct! :-)

I'm shooting the Hornady DGX .500 in my new Krieghoff. Someone told me it was loaded fairly light, but it still kicks the total crap out of me. If it was loaded hot, I wouldn't want to shoot it. It seems to shoot well.

Sorry boys, but you can have the DGX. Too many PH's confirm its lack of integrity on tough targets like Buffalo! Does it work? Most of the time, but I prefer ALL the time!!

DGS has one of the highest barrel strain readings in Michael and Sam's research. Tough on double rifle barrels. It'll get the job done, but better designs are available with the flat nose and less barrel strain. Check out the barrel strain numbers on the "500 Nitro New Exploration" thread, page 3 for reference. The only bullet with higher barrel strain than the DGS is the Woodleigh FMJ.

Remember the old saying, "you get what you pay for"? There is a reason it's cheaper than other factory ammo!

I prefer to not take chances with my bullets, especially when it comes to DG. CEB, Barnes, and Northfork! I'm just not a Hornady fan, thats all. But to each his own!

It is interesting that the strain gauge tests indicate that the Woodleigh solid is potentially the most damaging bullet to use in a double rifle. In the ongoing dispute about conventional versus monometal solids the Woodleigh has usually been considered "safe" for at least occasional use in a double rifle. (And until recently Woodleighs were among the very few available in double rifle calibers.) We have respected authorities telling us on the one hand how bad monometals are for double rifles and detailed scientific tests on the other hand telling us just the opposite.

Maybe I have missed it but I haven't seen any conclusions drawn in the strain gauge testing about what degree of stress is potentially damaging to a double rifle. I have only read that some bullets cause more stress than others. Hopefully the guys will be able to establish some sort of benchmark that indicates "don't go beyond this point" to allow conclusions to be drawn from their testing.

Bob,

I've engaged Michael several times on the issue of determining what is safe and what is not concerning barrel strain. I don't want to put words in his mouth so hopefully he will post here.

From what he has said to me, he doesn't want to declare "Safe" from "Unsafe" but rather give us the data to draw our own conclusions from.

I also found it interesting that the monometal bullets produced less strain than the bullet which is often used to regulate the weapon from the factory. I shoot TSX's in my doubles without hesitation and have never had a problem. I also know, without a doubt, under all circumstances, that the TSX as an expanding bullet, is going to work every time, without fail. I'm not going to shoot a cup and core, non bonded bullet at something that can stomp the living crap out of me! Ever!! I don't care how low the cost!!

Todd, I'm with you on the Barnes bullets. I got some from Randy more than 20 years ago right after I read the first article about them. He also coached me through loads with the early Barnes solids. I haven't looked back since. In over 20 years I have recovered a total of ONE Barnes bullet and never lost a critter I hit with one.

Good Morning all!

Hornady DGX. It does not test well in the terminals. I care little for that as an expanding type bullet. Will it do? Of course, most of what I have tested the nose wipes off, penetration does not suffer and it does not breakup, but it does not do much either.

DGS? Terminals depend on caliber and the bullet. I first tested the .458 480 and it tested no better than any round nose fmj, and worse. Not stable. Pushed to test the 500 gr version, and it did rather well in the terminals. Later testing .474 and .510, both were adequate, not quite there, but not bad either, somewhat stable for most of the ride you might say. We tested some smaller caliber DGS and they did rather well in the stability department. In the T'Rex tests they all balled up like a mushroomed expander, but that is an extreme test as well. The DGS has a less than optimum meplat size, a fast twist rate would give it more stability.


Barrel strains are pretty much conclusive. We all know as a bullet goes down any bore, it swells the barrel as it goes. This is fact. With strain gages attached to the barrel at 4-5 inches back from the muzzle, remove any reward influence from chamber pressures, and we are able to capture that moment in time as the bullet passes the point of which the gage is attached.

I find there are now 3 factors that effect barrel strain. 1. Bearing Surface 2. Diameter of that bearing surface 3. The ability of the bullet to give in to the barrel.

We use the Woodleigh Soft as a Benchmark Bullet. What that means is that the Woodleigh Soft is considered a safe bullet for any double rifle. It is soft, it gives in to the barrel, while it has more bearing surface, that bearing surface is softer and gives. So almost everyone considers it a "Safe Bullet" for doubles.

quote:

I haven't seen any conclusions drawn in the strain gauge testing about what degree of stress is potentially damaging to a double rifle

If you pinned me down to a conclusion, my conclusion would be that anything that falls under the Woodleigh Soft in barrel strain can't be bad. It puts less stress or equal stress, and expands the barrel equal or less than the Woodleigh Soft. It that strain number is significantly more than the Woodleigh Soft, then maybe you should take a long hard look at that before shooting hundreds of them down your bore?

With the varied amount of types of doubles, models, makes, makers, methods and so forth, you cannot put a number on that, as to what is safe or not, in your double rifle. If your double rifle is 100 yrs old as opposed to one that is fresh out the gate? Big difference.

quote:

From what he has said to me, he doesn't want to declare "Safe" from "Unsafe" but rather give us the data to draw our own conclusions from.

Todd is spot on correct. I cannot tell you what is safe or not safe for your double rifle. First, that would be irresponsible to do so, and that would indicate that I know more than what I do. I know what the science says. In every case tested we see the Woodleigh FMJ far above that of the Woodleigh Soft. As I understand it, the FMJ has a steel jacket surrounding the lead core to keep it's integrity. Guess what? That steel jacket does not give in to the barrel so easy eh? Oh but what about the hard mono metal solids? Do they Give? Well, brass and copper monos are softer than steel! But, the biggest advantage to these, take the CEBs, and North Forks for example, is Factor #1---Bearing Surface. Much less bearing surface on the monos than the various FMJ bullets. Thus the major difference.

We also see the Barnes Banded doing well in many of the strain tests. While it has more bearing surface than the other mono solids, it is undersized as well. In .458 I found the Barnes to be .456 and in .510 tests I found it to be .508. That is .002 undersized, of course it effects barrel strain.

Another one that diameter effects the bulge of the barrels, or barrel strain, is the various cast bullets. They always go much higher than any other bullet. I think part of the reason, they are most all over sized. In the recent barrel strain test last week with the 500 Nitro I was going to do a cast, but found them to be .512 in diameter, I refused to do so in Sams rifle. While a cast has more give to it than anything, that only counts for so much if it is .002 over sized. Add more bearing surface to that equation, more barrel strain and bulge! I would not shoot over sized cast bullets in a double if you want to know an opinion of mine. Maybe cast if it was true diameter or even a .001 less.

Remember the 3 Factors involved in barrel strain, pretty much good common sense when you think of it.

For those interested I am going to re-post the Barrel Strain Tests on the Bullet Thread for you to look at. I don't want to tread on this thread too much with that.

Michael