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Hey guys, a friend just posted this rifle picture on FaceBook. It appears to be a Rigby but with the name "Westley Richards" engraved on the action! Anybody know about this rifle or any others like it?  | ||
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Is it a Rising third bite ? Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Even a little LANCASTERish... D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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I was thinking Holland Early pattern - or W&C Scott, depending on what you call them. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Dominion? D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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Todd is there a picture of the action from the top? ......................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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Most probably built by Webley & Scott for Westley Richards. There's a description and good photographs of that very rifle (it's a .303) in the recently-published Westley Richards book. | |||
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Mac, this is the only other pic I've seen of the rifle:  | |||
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Thanks Todd at first blush this rifle does look very much like a Rigby by the shape of the back action side plates. It may have been made on a Rigby or possibly an H&H action by Westley Richards, however. The barrel set seems to have only one lock-up, no under-lug lock-up with the only lock being the doll’s head with what seems to be a screw grip or sliding bar WR lock notch on the doll’s head. The barrels are shoe-lump configuration IMO. And the under lug sliding lock isn’t needed and depends on the front of the lug to fit tight against a boss to retard frontal movement, so would be strong enough for the little 303 Britt chambering. The back sight is reminiscent of many sight set-ups on fine doubles (I Hollis, comes to mind) with this type of chambering. This rifle is most likely VERY well regulated, and is the reason for the multiple down range flip-ups, and the flip-up ladder sight for extreme range, most likely for one barrel only . The reason I wanted to see the top of the action was, to see the shape of the top lever. Most top lever of W R double have a very wide section at the lever screw end. This is so the lever can cams bar that locks in the notch in the doll’s head extension back. If that lock were a screw grip the top lever would be a different shape. However either type would be sufficient for this rifle’s chambering. In any event this is a fine little rifle in a chambering that is a true classic for the stagg hunting in the Scottish highlands, and if the barrels are not shot out, I would love to own it. Though the action doesn’t appear to be the usual Anson& Deeley action of most Westley Richards double rifles I still believe it to be a Westley Richards rifle made on a bought action. It is a beautiful double that is very well appointed and one anyone could be proud of! ....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Did Webley & Scott do a lot of work for Westley Richards? I have two vintage 12ga Webley & Scott shotguns that are great to shoot and very well put together. Have ay of you got images of some Webley & Scott Double Rifles. Sorry for the Hi-jack Ian Specialist Outfitters and Big Game Hounds An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - Winston Churchill | |||
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Mac you know your stuff mate. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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THis is art! Plane and Simple Art! Double Rifles, This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as bolt rifle. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age. DRSS Chapuis 9.3x74R NRA Life Member | |||
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That action does not look EXACTLY like the H&H Dominions, ot the Rigby's I have seen, handled or shot. The way the sideplate fits the action is not right. The number of screws and pins is not right. Not saying, it could not be an earlier or later action of those types, that I have seen... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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NE 450 No 2 it's not like a dominion, agree with you there. I have seen this type before, I just can't find a reference to one. It's like the early Holland's. Anyway, I will find one. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Here is one that is similar http://www.gunstar.co.uk/Shotg...r-sale-gs132327.aspx Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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And another http://www.calpappas.com/siteb...tures/470rigbylr.jpg Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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The pin layout is quite different in those H&Hs. | |||
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Agree. I was just putting up examples of what I was thinking. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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I understand Nigel. Just commenting. Has anyone ever seen a rifle undisputedly made by WR with this configuration? I really do just find it interesting. When my friend first posted this gun on FB, he claimed it to be WR. I responded with "except that it's a Rigby". That's when he reposted the closer crop showing WR engraved on the action. I had to eat a bit of crow on that one as I obviously didn't know enough to be a smart ass with my comments!  | |||
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I wonder what the WR records say about it. As you said, the pins are in an interesting location. . Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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In regards to the sights, how common were this set up? If you will pardon my re-direct but I am fascinated by the various open sights that have been devised over the years. Rifles that have been "sighted in" for eternity based on a load started my fascination with open sights | |||
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I certainly could be wrong, But I think this rifle is Westley Richards made and that fact alone could account for the difference in the pin positions when compared to a Rigby, or H&H. One other thing may be that the WR rifle is a BACK ACTION lock, and Most H&H and Rigbys are BAR ACTION side locks. If in fact this is a true WR rifle it is a rare specimen and would be a fine addition to any Westley Richards collector. The WR recprds will likely make comment to the lock system. However some times the WR records are a little vague. I have a WR 500/450#1 Express which I have a copy of the records that states it is a boxlock ejector rifle with Metford rifling sold out of the London store in 1892 to an unknown buyer. Not a lot of information that could not be determined by a simple examination. I was hoping the records would tie this rifle to Corbett, no such luck! .........................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac I think you could have hot the nail on the head with WR making it and BACK action. A request to WR would have to be on the cards. Blaserguy Sights - rare to have all 3 together on the one rifle. I have a vague memory of another double that had a ladder sight on it but don't have a photo. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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505G, Rusty, who posts here, has an I. Hollis that had the same sight seen on the WR here, except it had a standing and two flip-up, then the flip ladder sight. The Hollis rifles are the brand that I have seen this type of sight on most, but even then it is rare but not as rare as on other brands, and usually not on chamberings above .40Cal! ............................................................................. ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac Yep, that's it. I knew I had seen one. Todd Any chance the owner can send a request to WR to see what the records say ? Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Rusty's rifle is a 450/400NE J but the sight has been removed and a base made to fit the dovetail slot for a reflex sight. I'm sure he still has pictures of the rifle with the sight on it or can post a picture of the sight it's self. I'm sure he didn't get rid of the sight. ....................................................................... ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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We have to remember that back in the early days of the gun trade, a lot of people did a lot of work for everyone else so someone's idea's - ie I Hollis - could well have been seen by others - ie WR - and used. Although from memory, WR did a lot or all of their own gun making. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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That has always been the case in the Britt gunmaker's business. This could also apply to the shape of the side plates on the WR rifle here, a coppy of the shape, with their own lock system on the inside. It would be interesting to see the pin placement on a standard WR side-lock of common shape side plate, and compare the pin placement. .....................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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How many WR sidelocks with the same shape locks were actually made ? I haven't seen a many. In fact, because of the drop lock, I don't think that many Sidelocks were made full stop. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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"That has always been the case in the Britt gunmaker's business." And incestious business, isn't it Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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I don't believe there were many of that shape made because I've always been fond of WR double rifles and this is the first one I've actually seen a picture of and I've seen a lot of WR double rifles. Like you I suspect the Drop-lock is far more abundant than the side-lock. On the rifle we are discussing I think it is fairly old, because of the solid rib from breech to muzzle, Instead of a quarter rib, and caterpillar front sight, That is the mark of a pre 1895 double rifle. ..............DATE EDITED to 1895 not 1905 ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Agree re the rib. I have always used that rib as a dater of guns. I think I got the idea from when you first posted it on here or on NE when we were discussing how to date Webley made Double rifles. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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I edited my last post to read 1895 instead of 1905 I don't know what I was thinking!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Mac On Webley guns, I thought the full rib to Qtr rib was changed at a later date, say 1912 onwards. Any comment ? Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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May very well be true. styling changes as the public accepts it! Cpt Curl, or 400Nitro would likely know more about that than I. The full rib has been used on double barreled shotguns till as late as tomorrow! and I have a ten year old Merkel double rifle with a full rib, but most big bores are more likely to have quarter ribs. So it may not mean as much as I first thought. ......................Never too old to learn! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Todd, take a picture of the proof marks under the barrel flats and on the water table (Action where barrel flats touch on closing) and I can tell you if it was proofed in London or Birmingham. | |||
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I'd bet it will be Birmingham! Pre 1924. Yes, Mac! I did keep the sight. Dustin Mounts in Houston just drifted the rear sight base off the rib and we manufactured a base. I currently have a FastFire III on my rifle. Dot intensity changes according to the target background. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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Rusty what color is the dot in the fastfire III, and does it remain centered when adjusted? ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Guys, I don't own this rifle, nor does the fellow who posted it on FaceBook. It was posted by the gentleman who owns "The Hunting Page" on FaceBook. He posts pictures and stories of vintage and contemporary guns, hunters, and trophy pictures on a regular basis, with permission of the owners. I simply reposted it here with his permission but unfortunately, I don't have access to additional information on the rifle. However, jvw375 posted here that the rifle and it's description is in the recently published Westley Richards book. Does anyone have a copy? | |||
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Mac it is red and appears to remain centered. Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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