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Hi guys. Just got here and thought I'd introduce myself. I do mostly pig hunting. A while back I got a Kodiak ML double planning on using it for night hunting the bacon. In addition to the non regulation it's just not really suited to what I wanted to do with it. Smoke cloud prevents a realistic quick follow up shot. lol So when I saw the ad on Cabelas for the Double Rifle Which Must Not Be Named I figured it was too good to be true for that price and begun my research. Which got me here. I'm still not willing to write off getting a Sabatti basic specifically for bumping around at night, in the swamp for pigs, It'll just need to be a super deal. That said, After reading a BUNCH of the info posted here about them I've noticed a few things -It looks like the overwhelming majority of posts about them have been about the deluxe in NE calibers. Have people seen the basic to have the same kinds of problems? -If they're as big of a disaster as reviews would indicate it seems like there would be tons of them for sale used. I haven't really seen any. Is it just me? -Looking at the listings on GI I've noticed that maybe a third of the ones listed at the various Cabelas gun rooms have the barrel length at 23.5" rather than 24". Could these be guns which have been "repaired" by cutting of the ground part and recrowning? One of those would be acceptable, but I definitely don't want one with the muzzle ground. Again, looking forward to figuring this out with you guys and thumping some pigs in the future. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | ||
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Welcome. I was the person who exposed the grinding of the muzzles here. As a result I always stop and look at a Sabatti when I get a chance. The stock at Cabelas Rapid City and Dundee are 50/50 or so. The smaller caliber non deluxe models I have personally laid hands on are also 50/50. With one or both or none of the muzzles touched. Like I said 50/50. I was in Rapid City a few months ago they had 4 deluxes 1 was ground 3 were not. They had 3 non deluxes 2 were ground, one or both tubes, 1 not. So if you decide to buy just look carefully. And I hope if you do it shoots the factory ammo as advertised (Regulation target). Mine did not. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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WELCOME!  I'm looking for a SxS shotgun myself as a possible pig gun. An older Merkel would run ~$1200 in good condition. You could have it fitted with rifled chokes or, have someone like Briley replace the barrels with rifled ones for ~$1200. I've got my eye on a Merkel model 8 in 20 gauge. I think I may buy it and have threaded chokes fitted if it doesn't group well with slugs. I'm on the fence about taking a 16 gauge and chopping the barrels for a pair of fully rifle 20 gauge barrels. Best Regards, Sid Best Regards, Sid All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it. Alexis de Tocqueville The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. Alexis de Tocqueville | |||
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Supercracker: That Kodiak .72 will do yeoman service on your hogs. I found very good accuracy with patched round balls, but acceptable hunting accuracy with the NEI .730 835-grain conical. I think that slug over 120 grains of FFg Swiss would simply flatten your hogs for you. Welcome. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Or you could go with a Pedersolli replica of the Colt Double Rifle in 45-70. It has a exposed hammers and looks pretty cool. | |||
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Thanks guys. I briefly considered the shotgun route, but it just didn't get the juices flowing for me. My Kodiak is a .50. with the Hornady GPR bullets over 100gr FF it carried a bunch of thump. However, the closest it came to regulating was nearly a foot apart at roughly 30yds. Wholly unacceptable to me. And that's after monkeying around with 4 different bullets and God knows how many charges under them. hmmm, maybe I can have Sabatti grind the muzzles for me? j/k lol To work for me the Kodiak would need to be actually regulated, which I am tempted to do and sure it's within my capabilities, but if I'm going through that much trouble, I'd rather just get two barrels made, join them and build my own 12 bore. A project which I intend to take on later in the year in any case. Me and a buddy are planning a trip to Australia for Buff (among others)in 13 and I want to take one with a gun I built. the job I'm considering the Sabatti for is, as I said, to build it specifically for big pigs, at night, with either a full moon or red light. I tried the Kodiak for this application and while the first shot is good the smoke completely rules out a follow up shot. So there's no point in lugging around the heavy double. I'm on a lease in SE Ga that is made up all trophy crazy deer hunters who only show up a couple of weeks a year and would never ruin a deer hunt by shooting at a pig. So it is ATE UP with them. I don't care about the deer....at all....and am in it just for the bacon. I've been able to get a couple of smaller ones, but the big ones, naturally, are 100% nocturnal. And there are some real Swamp Rhino class porkers running around in there. Every time I go out there I find tracks as wide as my hand and scat bigger around than my wrist (no, it's not a bear). I haven't been able to get out much this past year, but my schedule is different now and I plan to get after them with a vengeance in 2012. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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I've noticed those on Gunbroker and they look like a cool little package but have never heard anything from anyone who has used one. If I could run across one cheap that is a definite possibility. However, before I would pay 2000 or 2500 for that rifle used, I would skip a few bartabs and just get a new Sabatti. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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Supercracker I also had a Kodiak that was not accurate and considered the .45/70 hammergun. After handling one I felt that it was too heavy to lug around and so I wound up buying a .45/70 Sabatti. I love mine. It's very accurate and the right weight for caliber. Are you talking about building a muzzle loading 12 bore? If so, consider looking for a good antique muzzle loader double with bad barrels (if you can find one) and use that as a basis for a rifle. I'm doing that with a high quality Brit 13 ga double that I bought very reasonably at a gun show. Someone had tried to clean up the bores and ran a reamer through one of the barrel walls. OOPS! Anyway, we fit the original breech plugs into a pair of new .62 cal barrels I am now in the process of regulating them. I'm using .610 patched round balls over 90 grains of FFG. Shoot and solder. Slow, but I'm getting there. | |||
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I have a thing for old German shotguns also. I have a 12/13 Ga, roughly 1880s breech loader that I'm cleaning up right now. I was able to get it for a good price and it's only real issue is a couple of small dents in the barrel which wouldn't be too hard to remove. They're a nice damascus pattern and in close to 90% shape aside from the dents. I AM tempted to use that gun to make an interesting double rifle and use the repaired barrels for a double flinter shotgun project. It's almost too nice though. Well engraved, gold and silver inlays, ornate horn grip etc. etc. It's also a toplever, which is a bit uncommon for that time period.   _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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Supes, that's a hell of a lovely old piece! There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Supercracker That is an attractive old double. I doubt that I'd do anything to it other than restore it & shoot it. It's pretty easy to find a set of 12 ga cartridge barrels to work with. I bought a set several years ago and built a double flint myself. We cut the breeches off right at the forcing cones and tapped them for the plugs. A word of caution. If you do this, turn and thread your breech plugs, then seat them in the barrels and put witness marks on the plugs. Don't mill the hooks or do anything else until the plugs are properly bottomed out in the barrels, otherwise you'll never get the hooks properly aligned to go into the cuts in the breech. Last thing is to locate and install your touchholes after it's stocked and the locks are in. Try to get barrels at least 30 inches long or they'll be way short after you lop off the chambered sections. L&R make nice pairs of locks for English style guns. | |||
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That's a neat looking old gun! I think I would just clean it up and keep it the way it is also! | |||
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Guys. I just said I was tempted, I never said it was a rational temptation. lol _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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If you look up my post on my Sabatti Basic. To make it short the gun crossed at 25 yards. The cambers were,out of round and to large. You had to just about had to stand on the triggers to fire the gun. If Cabalas would let me have a gun to shoot, that shot the same or close to the factory target I would buy one again. At a price tag of $2000. | |||
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Supercracker, Like the name, I'm a transplanted Cracker myself. Call Petersons Gun Shop in Mount Dora, Fl. See if they are selling any doubles. They have a range out back and will let you test. My information is many years old but they have been around for almost a hundred years. Cheers, John Give me COFFEE and nobody gets hurt | |||
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MANY of the Sabatti NE models listed at Cabela's are used. They are returned models that appear to be offered as NEW but are actually returns. I finally saw a few in the Buda, TX store this past week, (about 6 of them) that have been reduced in price by $500 as they are obviously returns. Next time you are in a Cabela's store looking at Sabittis that you think are new, notice how much copper fouling is in the rifling as you inspect for ground muzzles. Cabela's is not even cleaning the returns before re-offering them as new! | |||
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There are no Cabelas anywhere near me. So, sadly, if I decided to go that route I'd have to order it. Or, more likely, have it transferred to the store in LA and just make a weekend trip out of. Drive over (~9hrs), shoot some birds, chase pigs, inspect and pick up the gun and then drive back. Regardless, I wouldn't do ANYTHING until after an extended discussion and understanding with the gun library manager that if I get there and it's ground then no deal! In e mail if possible. Looking over their terms on the website. It looks like even if they wanted to be asses about it I would only be out a $25 "fee". So, in the grand scheme of things. No biggy. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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I'll be down that way week after next. I might have to stop in. Do they tend to deal with doubles regularly? Thanks _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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Supercracker, I can tell you this, Pigs dont run way after a 450#2 hits him. Hit a pig last March in Fl 125miles north of Tampa St. Pete. Running shot hit him in the side behind the stomach traveled forward thru stomach, liver chest, thru neck and exited out head under left eye. Mike | |||
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I bet a 450 NE round probably does a huge number on them. I used to have a lot more free time and generally spent it in the swamp. I've seen 3, genuine, Rhino category MONSTERS around here that I think a Nitro caliber would have been right in line. lol I don't really want to go for the NE, Right now I'm sold on the 9.3x74. It looks like a good all around caliber for bigger critters. Big pigs, Elk, not a crazy caliber for whitetails, etc. If I'm going out for just meat pigs I'll probably still carry the .50 flinter. _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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I just ran across a set of brand new, unjoined 12 bore ML barrels that I can pick up right now for about the same as I could have gotten a single barrel made for and still had to wait 3-4 months. I think God is trying to tell me something. lol _________________________ "We all come into this world screaming, bloody and naked. If life is lived properly this does not stop at birth." | |||
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