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So here is my dilemma. I nearly bought SRose's .577vc last year for buffalo but time ran out. I took my Gibbs .505. I m very happy with it's accuracy and at 100 yds it groups 1" with 525 Tsx (not kynoch or Woodleigh solids) and 3" at 300 yds off sticks. Last weekend my long range 375/408ct/505 Gibbs case grouped 12" at 2200 yds with 6 shots video taped. I really would like an accurate double .577 but I read of shots going off target on animals with .577s. Not sure if it's rifle, shooter or caliber. Would like to put a red dot ?doctor on one and group hopefully at 2" - 3" at 100 yds off sticks. Is this unreasonable or what is the experience particularly since many doubles have flip up sites to 300 yds. How accurate is the factory Kynoch ammo since it seems to perform well and any difference between solids and softs. I m still trying to get to understand and sort out in my mind all the great testing Michael and Sam have done on the .577. | ||
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A .577 NE to shoot at 100 yards? I would get another caliber. It can be done, but why? The .577 is a stopper for under 50 yards, in my opinion. Mike | |||
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LR, the 577 is meant for that largest of dangerous game, none of which you'd shoot much beyond 50 yards, and most quite a bit closer. I'm sure you could get one regulated to get within a few inches or better at 100 yards, but I think your scoped 505 would be a better tool if that's your need. I love the 577 double, as long as you don't need to hike with it 14 miles after an Elephant :-) | |||
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Only if you have no regard for the physical damage it will do to you.  Larry Sellers SCI(International)Life Member Sabatti 'trash' Double Shooter R8 Blaser DRSS | |||
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LR3, yes you need a 577. I still have that VC available. With the lighter 600 and 650 gr CEBs you can have a real power house with manageable recoil. As far as a Doctor sight I'm not sure they will hold up. I put one on my Heym and it was great for about 8 shots then it went all over the place. I really liked the sight but it wouldn't hold its POI. Maybe there is a better one out there. I use a peep sight and have gotten great accuracy out to 100 yards. I have not shoot it past that distance but I'm sure it will work fine at longer distances. That is if your eyes are good. Sam | |||
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Hi, Sam. Keep me in the loop on the Docter sight. I've not heard of any problems with them, but anything man-made can obviously break. Ivan has been using the Trijicon RMR on his 600 for a few years now with no trouble. We make mounts for both the Trijicon and the Docter if you want to change. | |||
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Chris, I had the Heym mount on my 577 with the Dotor sight. Maybe it was just my Doctor that was no good. I have not tried the sight on any other guns since the 577. I have used the Tasco Optima sight on many guns with good luck. The one I had I gave to a Special Ops guy who used it on a tour in Iraq with good sucess. The sights work great and until the Doctor went nutts on the 577 I was worried I was going to really like it. Shame to put something like that on a double! I'll stick with irons and a peep. | |||
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LR3, I agree with Mike Jines, the 577NE double is a stopper, and it certainly would not be my choice! In fact I have owned two 577NE double rifles and frankly the effective gain over a 500NE or even the 470NE is not worth the extra weight, and recoil. The fact that you want to own a 577NE double rifle makes none of the above worth anything other than my opinion. If a 577NE double is what you truly want then go for it, it is YOUR money so it is YOUR CHOICE! ………………………………………………………….  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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No!  DRSS Member | |||
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Seriously Macd37....is it so little gained in performance by choosing .577 over .500 NE that its not worth the effort..?? | |||
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That is my opinion too. With the .577 you pick up a good bit more weight to lug around and a pretty decent increase in recoil. In return you pick up only a modest improvement in the effect on the terminal end. Just my view, your mileage may vary. Mike | |||
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I'm with SRose on this one. In regards to weight, I find my Heym 577NE "G-Block" to be very manageable. In fact, I carried it on my last bear hunt in British Columbia where elevation gains/losses are common when chasing bear with hounds. On many occasions, we broke into a recon shuffle in order to close the gap and get to a bay up or treed bear. Frankly, the gun is a joy to carry is well worth the extra pound or so in weight when you pull the trigger and hear the "Clap…BOOM". Brings a big smile to my face even as I type it! I'm not going to debate the difference in gains/losses in going to a 577 verse the 470 or 500. I sold my 470 and upgraded to the 577 and feel it was the right choice without question. With that said, a 500 in the new "G-Block" design would be very nice as well. I'd like to see New_Guy post the weights for the HEYM doubles in 470, 500, 577 so we can see the actual differences. Safari James USMC DRSS | |||
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Thanks for all the advice!! I m off to Southern Africa for 3 weeks so time to think about it. Of course if I buy one then there is less incentive to research and dream about the perfect double ! My lion skull got through US customs etc before any closure of importation so I m relieved to leave without worrying about it. Thanks and Happy hunting to advisors | |||
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Gentlemen, IMHO it is basically pure physics. Lets take the 450/400. I have used it to take lion, cape buff and elephant. It worked PERFECT... No drama. I have also taken several cape buff and several elephants with my 450 No2. Again no Drama. One of my PH's called my 450 No2 the HAMMER of THOR. So baised on my personal experience I can say that these two calibres are plenty good enough. I do not think that you need "More"... But I will state that the 500NE, is a step up in "book" power over the 450's/470's/475's... And the 577 is again another step up in "Power", as is the 600 a step up over the 577. Do you need these steps up in Power??? Well maybe not, IMHO... But if you can handle the increase in recoil and rifle weight, and you "WANT" to, then I say GO FOR IT. We all hunt for several reasons. ONE of those reasons is fun. So, If hunting with a handgun, a bow, or a 577, makes it more fun for you, then it is a good thing. As long as the weapon of your choice is well handled... And here is the "Scary" thing, I killed a giraffe with only 2 rounds fired, my biggest cape buff, in body and horn with one round fired,[the only cape buff I killed with one round] and an elephant at 5 yards with again only one round fired, with the 9,3x74R...   DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Accuracy usually is not the problem with the 577 rifle.it is usually the shooters practice level. I have owned a few 577, and they take a lot of practice to get comfortable with the weight,balance, and recoil. I can take my 9.3 out and with in 6 shots we are ol friends hitting pigs on the run or water jugs at 75 yards. Every time I pack a 577 out- I am reminded that I don't spend enough time in the gym, I don't like recoil, and it is a serious weapon for serious business. A 577 is like driving a AC cobra, while fun--after a short time afield I feel whipped. Just my 2 centavos. Ed DRSS Member | |||
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Weight is an issue and this is why I wanted a lighter 577 than the norm. The new Heym is getting there but I'd still like to shave another pound off it. Recoil really isn't that bad. I'd much rather shoot my 577 than most of the 458 Lotts and bigger bolt guns. To get ready for a hunt I carry a 14 lbs lead bar with me while walking several miles every day. When I pick up my 12 lb something 577 it feels like a feather. | |||
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LR3, give up and get one! That itch won't be scratched until you do :-) | |||
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As "arose" indicates, the weight of the new Heym 577 is not bad at all. At less than 13 pounds, I really enjoy carrying it. From a recoil and accurate shooting standpoint, the 577 is about as big as I want to venture. Can I shoot larger calibers? Sure. Would I feel confident and be deadly accurate on follow up shots? From a recouil perspective probably not. The new Heym 577 is a rifle/caliber that I feel extremely confident in shooting as the weight is perfect FOR ME, the recoil is tolerable and isn't something that concerns me and the gun handles like my Heym 450/400. For anyone exploring the idea of purchasing a 577, I can tell you that Chris/Heym nailed it on the new design. I couldn't be happier with my decision. Safari James USMC DRSS | |||
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I guess I'd be a bit out of the loop if I suggested skipping the .577 and make the full step up to a .600. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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Cal, did they ever make a 600 in BP or NFB? | |||
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LR3, if you get a BP 577, it can be loaded to be effective today for Dangerous Game, with a 650gr bullet at 1,700-1,800 fps. | |||
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Jon, Nope the 600 is full Nitro only. And yes it's too much for you!   NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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GO FOR WHAT YOU WANT I HAVE THE 600 THE 700 WOULD BE NICE BUT I WILL NEVER SEE ONE SO THE 600 WAS MY DREAM RIFLE YEA I PUT IT UP FOR SALE BUT I KEEP INCREASING THE PRICE REALLY DONT WANT TO PART WITH IT DRSS,SCI. ZOLI 9.3X74R (2) Zoli 450 400 NE Merkel 470 NE V-C 600 NE VICTOR SARASQUETA 375 | |||
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Mike, I was confusing this with the thread about someone looking for a BP DR. Doh! | |||
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Must be the old timers syndrome kicking in again huh?  NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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I forget....what were we talking about? | |||
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 NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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I have shot the 500 and 577 and the ones I shot would print 1-3/4 to 1.5 inches, both Searcys, at 50 and one would print a small cluster at 75 yards..The recoil is horrendous IMO and they are not fun to shoot, but accuracy problems with them are human caused..Few people can actually shoot them accurately.. I would not own one simply because they need to weigh about 13 to 16 pounds and after a 15 mile walk in 105 degree weather they become clumsy and totally inefficient IMO..even when I was young.. I have seen a few buffalo shot with them and they are good killers for sure but not any better than a `10 lb. 470 as far as I could tell by watching the effect of buffalo and the distance they traveled. But thats just my two bits, and I have heard a lot more complaints about packing that 13 to 16 pound or heavier rifle than how they shoot..The big heavy guns seem to be a one trip rifle to Africa by US sportsmen. They get that hunt under their belt then go home and sell or trade the big boomer off and get a lighter rifle thats easier to pack under most safari conditions.... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Surely if you can afford to buy an expensive 577 or 600 double rifle and a expensive elephant hunt, you can afford a gun bearer to carry it the 15 miles ??? if you have spent all that time in the office and on a dunkin donuts diet ,and are packing the flab along . As for the recoil ,realistically how many times are you going to shoot it on a hunt ? ,three or four times at most on the one animal and you wont feel the recoil anyway ,and if you have one of those annoying ''PH''s that insist on shooting the animal a split second after you fire your first shot, you will probably only get one barrel off anyway, before the Coup De Gras is delivered .Then spend the rest the rest of your ''hunt days ''driving around in the bush in circles looking for the lost ''Wherethefuckarewe '' Tribe .I have a 585 on a Ruger N01 and i would hardly say it has horrendous recoil ,it boots ,but i can shoot it, so i cant see why others cant?? and i had two shoulder injuries in the past . | |||
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Your right...sure someone can carry it for you, not a problem, sure any "cave-man" can handle and shoot a 577 or 600...I should have said use effectively. a 13- 16 lb double in heat is hard to handle. I am in reasonable shape (did not say good)and I tell you my arms are tired packing a 13lb gun--even just holding in on point is difficult for more than 25 or 30 sec. I am 6'3 and 238lbs..I could lose about 10..and that would be perfect but it still would not take the toll of a 13-16 lb gun out of the equation. Holding weight is holding weight. I can shoot my 577, I can handle proficiently my 10lb 470 and my 8.75 lb 9.3x74, BIG DIFFERENCE! I have only met 2 guys (I know there are more) that could wield a big 577 stick proficiently--my old friend Danny Kopeck and Karl Stumpfe...both of those guys are strong as bulls and could practice enough with the big gun to master it... I took this thread as this might be his first double, and was expressing an OP that the 577 is not the best option for a 1st double. Its a great gun, but not a fun gun... Just my 2 cents.... DRSS Member | |||
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Ed, now you hurt my feelings :-( | |||
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Sorry Jon...you and I would loose arm wrestling both Karl, and Danny, but hey...we are better looking!  DRSS Member | |||
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I don't think crying a .577 or .600 for a day is impossible. I'm old with one foot in the grave and my .600 and been my hunting rifle for 5 international hunts and more in the future. As to accuracy, any good double will shoot to whatever distance the shooter is able. By able I mean off hand open sight shooting at big game--not a 400-yard antelope rifle. Bottom line, get what you an afford and want. Life is too short to do otherwise. I'd rather put some effort into hunting with a vintage .600 than take it easy with an 8-pound Lazeroni (sp?). Hell, I'd rather stay at home and watch Oprah reruns. Cheers, Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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I thought you said you prefer 'Days of our Lives' or General Hospital to Oprah.. NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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I much rather read replies to my posts from Shootaway. Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | |||
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So as you may have seen I bought Aaron Neilson s .577. I m delighted with the accuracy. So after adjusting the rear V my so and I put 12 rounds through it off sticks. At 20 yds the vertical was perfect off sticks and each round either side of 3" bull or in bull. Freehand about 3" high. Then went out to 100 yds since we new it shot about 2" left and 2-4 " high depending on CEB or TSX the last time. After the adjustment, first i buried the bead and it went 6" low below the bull then three into 3" bull and one .5 wide. My son flinched on one and 6" high. All Vertical perfect. These were all done without raising the 50 or 100 yd leaves so those I ll have to check at 150 and 175 - 200 yds . My guess is the additional MOA is about 1 MOA for 50 and 2-3 for 100 yd labels. clearly these are incorrectly labelled. Ballistically if the rifle is sighted for 20-25 yds and 100 yds with the same leaf then you should not need to have a 50 yd increase because the bullet will already be running high at 50-75 yds. The rifle is a VC .577 and at 100 yds we only used 750 TSX. Could not have hoped for better with iron sights. Thanks to all those who gave me advice above and I agree the rifles accuracy is better than my shooting ability. LR3 DRSS | |||
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LR3 The Docter is rated at 1000G"s IIRC They have some locking screws to lock the diode in place. these have to be loosened to adjust and snugged afterwards. I had one on a 500 And onother on a 470 Both were shot a lot No problems A friend has several on a 470 and a 475 tturnbull he shoots A LOT Hundreds of rounds a year. No issues. I have had good experiences with the Docter sights. Nitro "Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall DRSS, BASA 470 Krieghoff, 45-70 inserts, 12 ga paradox, 20 ga DR Simson/Schimmel, 12 ga DR O/U Famars, 12 ga DR SXS Greener | |||
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Looks like you and your son had a great day, a lot of fun, "survived" shooting a 577 and were probably wearing big grins for quite some time. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Hey, it's CCMDoc! There's someone who knows his way around a 577 or 600 NE Double! | |||
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Yep Contrary to popular belief and despite the attempts of various quacks, oops I mean surgeons I am still amongst the living and looking forward to hearing of LR3's 577 successes. BTW, take a round to deer camp. When talk turns to what the other boys use quietly take the 577 round out and stand it on the table. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Help .. Should I buy a .577 double ? Accuracy
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